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[baruk]

 Congratulations! I may join you soon as a Correspondent, I have the notability but my watchful only gives me a 37% chance of success, so I might do a little (a lot) more archaeology first. A Zubmarine seems like a grind too far for me at the moment.

[E. Albright]

I did it with a 38% chance, +/-1. With the second chance from a Sudden Insight that's actually right around a 38% chance to fail*. I'd say go for it if you have enough Scholar of the Correspondence to take the step. It's a jump from ~50 echoes a week to ~70 echoes a week, though w/o the Bohemian rep.

Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)

This assumes you lose the Unsigned Message card if you Perhaps Not back out of a Sudden-Insight-protected failure. If you don't lose the card... good God, man, you've no excuse at all! Burn the d__ned second chances and claim the Violant Ink you so richly deserve!

Spoiler: Also, in re: ze Zub... (click to show/hide)

...the hellish Zubmarine grid was what took me from 128/160 raw/boosted Watchful to 164/196 (well, okay, my first trip overzees (Hunter's Keep, to stock up on Implications for the push from SotC 8 to 10) took me from 161 to 164... and also now that I've swapped my fans for better ink, it's 202 boosted). The biggest thing for me was using careful wardrobe selection to ensure my modified Watchful stayed at exactly 190 for as long as possible when grinding War of Assassins for those d__nable Contraptions... 191 would've meant one less change point per action, and that adds up fast when you're doing 33 Watchful actions to get one of them...

[nenjin]

Meanwhile I think I've spent the last three weeks grinding up Master Thief, absolutely non-stop. Trivial in difficulty but it takes a metric fuckton of actions to not get caught. And where I'm stealing from.....getting caught once is enough.

[E. Albright]

Theolodus, if I might inquire of my elders... if one is simply trying to make an honest echo, what's the best course of action in your considerable experience?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd been taking care of some unfinished business and collecting donations of wax on Ladybones Road, at about an Echo per donation, but currently I'm wandering aimlessly in the lawless overzee chaos that is the Iron Republic (I am sufficiently Ambitious that I don't wear out my welcome here); I can fill up a journal with any old rubbish  in around 10 swift strokes of the pen, give or take, and sell that selfsame journal to credulous Londoners for 15 Echoes upon my return, simply because it bears an Iron Republic customs stamp...

[Theodolus]

That's a good question. I've never bothered optimizing my earning strategy simply because it got too boring. At this point though the entire game is getting a bit boring for me. I've said it before, but I feel like I've missed out on a number of stories simply by being so high level already that the opportunities never come up.

I do think that Iron Republic Journals are a bit of a red herring though. Reasoning is that as far as I'm aware every time you complete one you have to leave and then return. That adds another 2 actions to the pool plus you have to then account for the travel which is a good 20-25 actions. There may be a way to make it more profitable, but overall I think there are better options.

I'll do some poking about at the various options I have to see if I can find anything that consistently gives a good payout. I'm fairly certain I have an option somewhere that pays out around 1.5 Echoes worth of goods on a consistent basis, but I may be wrong. I do tend to try to do actions that will pay out more than just goods (advancing some sort of counter such as Spending Time in the Labyrinth).

[E. Albright]

I understand and sympathize about the boredom. And about the missed opportunities - oh, god, the missed opportunities.

As to journals, I think I'm getting at least 1.5 per action, but it's so d__nably random that it's hard to say. It takes me 10-15 actions to cycle through the Republic, and I get enough Changed By to purchase at least one Journal - I'd say that out of 3 cycles, I can usually buy 4. I'd also say that about 60-80% of the cycles I hit an action that gives me 3 Echoes worth of Proscribed Material. Adding one action for buying each Journal doesn't slant things too badly.

And regarding the big cost - the leave-and-come-back problem - it doesn't bother me. As in, I don't have to go. My Ambition: Nemesis quality lets me hang about in the Republic indefinitely so long as I don't advance it (and I don't have the 5 Portfolios of Souls on hand that I need for that, so no risk there...), so the action cost of a Journal is just however much it takes to build up Changed By to 5, plus 1 to receive it.

[nenjin]

Now that I'm PoSI land.....yes, I can see why people fall off playing after this point. The grinding is pretty in your face.

On the other hand, I've kind of come to appreciate the grind because, were it not for it, I might have already plumbed the depths of what FL can offer. After my thieving escapades, I've been spending time grinding away in Wilmot's End for Strong-backed Labor, to get a Gymnasium I know will ultimately just give me some stats. When I'm busy, the kinds of activities that are pure grinding are actually kind of welcome because I don't have to read or think about them. I spent the bulk of my actions during the day while working on grindy stuff, and spend the remainder actually reading storylets when I'm at home.

Still, I can safely say the game is less interesting the grindier it gets, even as someone who started last year. It wouldn't be so bad if the menaces didn't also pile up like crazy and require another 20 actions to deal with. And I haven't even started f'ing around with notability yet.

[E. Albright]

After my thieving escapades, I've been spending time grinding away in Wilmot's End for Strong-backed Labor, to get a Gymnasium I know will ultimately just give me some stats.

Please tell me you're not grinding Dramatic Tension to acquire SBL. Please. It's 34 actions to get one via DT, whereas you can buy it in the sidestreets for 12.50E, and it's trivial to get that for no more than 13 actions.

It wouldn't be so bad if the menaces didn't also pile up like crazy and require another 20 actions to deal with.

...another reason my current grindscapades in the Iron Republic are so appealing: sure, I'm getting so much menace it's not even funny - most actions give me at least 3CP of one or another - but it's the Iron Republic! The next action might well flatly set it to 2 or 3, and even if it doesn't, 8 is just another number here! No laws! No consequences! Woo!

And I haven't even started f'ing around with notability yet.

I found grinding Notability to be much less of a big deal than a lot of people suggest. If you build up a huge pile of 50p items, you can run through the 50x-to-51y conversion loop with them indefinitely, and about 1/3-1/2 of the conversions will give you reasonably large-if-random chunks of Making Waves. Sure, the dry parts of the cycle when you're converting 1000 Tales of Distant Shores to 1020 Brilliant Souls, and 1000 of those to 1020 Tales of Terror is a 50p-grind, but then you'll turn around and convert 1000 Tales to 1020 Compromising Documents and ~150CP of Making Waves...

[nenjin]

Yes, I admit it, I'm doing it. I could sell....any number of things out of my inventory to make that cash easily. I just don't because I know, down the line, I'll probably want it for more. I don't mind it too much as it's been an excuse to mindlessly raise Persuasive and Watchful, and I don't have the time or the mind to hunt down what's a better grind. I think I'm doing it mostly to avoid diving into the storylets available to me. I kind of sense the endgame content wall around the corner.

[E. Albright]

I had the same attitude, until I realized I was spending actions getting nothing, to get something... when I could be spending fewer actions - with generally less risk of menace - to get items explicitly to sell to get something, while still training my attributes. Go do 13 of the various 1-action "Unfinished Business" actions, and do so with the firmly fixed mindset that you're not gaining items you can use later, you're gaining 1/13th of a SBL. The packrat in me still screeches at the notion, but this game is grindy enough without adding to it.

[nenjin]

I suppose part of the responsibility of being Important in Fallen London is taking the time to do the math on the most effective grinding ><

[E. Albright]

Aside from Nenjin, Theodolus, Ronald Miasma (baruk), and myself (Vide), are there any other B12ers still active in Fallen London? I was feeling vaguely festive and so went about doling out buckets of teeth for the Feast of the Extravagant Rose, but I'm not sure any of the rest of the people from here on my contacts list are still playing (not that I _grindblame_grind y'all if you're not)...

[Also: Theodolus, how much of a beating did your lily taking from losing? I've been frightfully reluctant to pit mine against anyone...]

[sjm9876]

Aye, i'm still here, and recently received some importance.

[Theodolus]

[Also: Theodolus, how much of a beating did your lily taking from losing? I've been frightfully reluctant to pit mine against anyone...]

Honestly, I'm not sure. A few change points I think. It's really frustrating for me because I have my plant at just around 15 and have had it up to 16 before. I won 3 in row and then have lost every single attempt since. It's one of the most random and annoying bits but it's also the only way to secure a personal recommendation without having to waste a ton of actions or money in the side streets.

[nenjin]

[Also: Theodolus, how much of a beating did your lily taking from losing? I've been frightfully reluctant to pit mine against anyone...]

Honestly, I'm not sure. A few change points I think. It's really frustrating for me because I have my plant at just around 15 and have had it up to 16 before. I won 3 in row and then have lost every single attempt since. It's one of the most random and annoying bits but it's also the only way to secure a personal recommendation without having to waste a ton of actions or money in the side streets.

Can you continue to level it up through opportunity cards, or is there a line beyond which you HAVE to challenge other lillies to advance?