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[baruk]

EDIT: I just found a really interesting storyline, one that more then anything I envision will make me rage.
Its called The Case of the Fidgeting Writer, and to start you have to sacrifice a tale of terror.
Every single level you have two choices, try to succeed on a luck challenge (which is at fairly good odds) and sacrifice a echos worth of good whether you fail or not OR turn in your progress so far for some stuff from the bazaar (ranging from fairly good to excellent depending on what step your on).
If you fail in the challenge then you go right back to the start.

I have now plowed several days worth of actions into this. I haven't crunched the numbers, but I'm sure it must be worth it..
I'm already planning to purchase quarters at the Royal Bethlehem with the proceeds (you can get a couple of antique mysteries if you make it about four steps along). It's a cheap way of amassing collated research, at the very least.

I am pretty sure that its not actually worth it in echo terms.
I mean the story is extremely interesting, and you get a pretty great reward, but I think that sucsess is so rare, combined with the goods you have to sacrifice all the time that it is only really worth it if you have done all the regular content.

If you're trying to complete it, it will be very expensive, I agree, and there is this strong temptation to see how far the rabbit hole goes. But what if you stop at step two, and trade in your progress for two collated research? I needed twelve for a storylet in the bazaar side streets, it seemed like an efficient way getting the resources.

[lemon10]

Each collated research is worth 2.5 echos, and it takes ~58 actions to get 20 of them (or a return of ~.9 echos per action) useing foxfire candles and item conversions, I think that there are other ways to get them easier too besides fidgeting writer, but I am a but unsure of how cost effective they are.
Its pretty hard to calculate the exact return on the case of the figiting writer, due to the combo of having to use goods for every step, the fact that there are multiple steps that you can fail at, and the fact that the difficulty level is different for every step even if it uses the same description.
Assuming that you succeed at both steps, its obviously quite nice, giving you 5 echos worth of goods for 3 actions and a echo worth of goods (aka a return of 4 echos per 3 actions or 1.333 echos).
So it would give 20 collated research for 30 actions and 10 echos.

However if you have a failure rate of ~50% (which you do with the first step succeeding 75% of the time and the second step suceeding 70% of the time), the its pretty obviously not worth it.
I will assume that the first attempt you fail at step one, the second attempt you fail at step two, and the third and fourth attempt both succeed.
First and second time use up 1.5 echos worth of goods and 3 actions.
Third and forth use up 2 echos worth of goods, grant 10 echos worth of goods, and use 6 actions.
That is a total cost of: 3.5 echos, 9 actions and grants 10 echos worth of goods. Which is a return of .65 echos per action.



It really does depend on the exact success rates, however, at 75/70, its pretty obviously not worth it, and while it would be worth it if the sucess rates are higher then that (although I don't think they are), I don't think they made it the optimal grinding way for any items.

That said, I suppose its not really that bad if you only need 12, just a little bit sub-optimal.
And don't even bother trying to use it to grind for antique mysteries, using casing to get them is a far better return.
On which note, if you have a gang of hoodlums, using casing to get teir 3's and converting them to teir 4 items, is pretty handily the best echo return in the game.

[baruk]

That said, I suppose its not really that bad if you only need 12, just a little bit sub-optimal.

I'll tell you what is sub-optimal.. in the bazaar side streets, I can spend an action to turn 15 tales of terror and 70 appalling secrets into a single collated research (I'm assuming you only get one unit here, if it works in the same way as the other side street actions). In a word.. ouch! That's 18 echoes worth of items, for something worth 2.5 echoes.
 Even at a 50% success rate, the mottled man storylet gets you two collated research for 4 tales of terror, 2 visions of the surface and 7 actions. If each action is worth one echo, this means we get 5 echoes worth of items for a 10 echo outlay.
 I haven't tried the casing/gang of hoodlums strategy yet, it sounds a lot better. Probably best to work on that first before going for the really expensive stuff.

[GlyphGryph]

Lemon is making the mistake in assuming the sell value of an item is the worth of the item, I think.

[lemon10]

Lemon is making the mistake in assuming the sell value of an item is the worth of the item, I think.

Well, there are very obvious cases echo value isn't equivalent or nearly equivalent of what a item is worth in actions required to get it (acting under the assumption that a action is worth at least a echo at minimum at endgame).
However, any item that can be got by item conversion (including collated research) is worth about the same as its echo value in the long run, due to the rare successes that you get from item conversions which mean that you usually get better then ~1 echo out of the item.
In addition to which, collated research occupies a special space, being the only capstone item that fits in a 2.5 echo slot, and thus allowing you to get it faster in item conversion then any of the others.

That said, I suppose its not really that bad if you only need 12, just a little bit sub-optimal.

I'll tell you what is sub-optimal.. in the bazaar side streets, I can spend an action to turn 15 tales of terror and 70 appalling secrets into a single collated research (I'm assuming you only get one unit here, if it works in the same way as the other side street actions). In a word.. ouch! That's 18 echoes worth of items, for something worth 2.5 echoes.
 Even at a 50% success rate, the mottled man storylet gets you two collated research for 4 tales of terror, 2 visions of the surface and 7 actions. If each action is worth one echo, this means we get 5 echoes worth of items for a 10 echo outlay.
 I haven't tried the casing/gang of hoodlums strategy yet, it sounds a lot better. Probably best to work on that first before going for the really expensive stuff.

Yeah, the bazaar side-streets rips you off pretty consistently, if there is any alternative (and there is for the majority of side-street items), then you should probably take it.
When I said 75/70, I meant 75% for the first action and 70% for the second action (which does work out to ~50%), not 75/70% total.

If you don't have a gang of hoodlums, the three echo action is just about as effective, although if your going to be doing some major grinding, you might want to get the gang first (not that its really much more effective or will justify the cost, but you will want the gang eventually for completion/dreaded/shadowy it will provide, and getting it sooner then later will probably save you like 15 actions).

[GlyphGryph]

Oooh... just got a "Bat with an Attitude". Anyone else gotten one of these? Are they good for anything? I though it would be a pet but it... isn't. Odd.

[Euld]

Never heard of such a bat o_O  I always figured there was just the one kind of bat and that's it.

I've accumulated 40,000 whispered secrets.  40,000 to go.  Yes I'm crazy.

[GlyphGryph]

Okay, I'm going to dump my friends list so as to narrow it to people that are still playing.
Anyone that is still playing, send me an invite for something
(preferably for Sudden Insights)
((preferably more than one. ))

[Theodolus]

Huh. Just realized that you aren't a friend in that game. Sent you an invite and followed you on twitter as I'm not entirely sure which one will allow me to send you messages.

[Graven]

You dropped me I skip one day because of university tests and you dropped me

fake edit : And you're blocking me on Twitter! Why, how insolent! Rectify this at once!

real edit : Also please post a list of the people who did send you stuff since my previous effort to find out who still plays kind of failed.

[GlyphGryph]

I didn't know how to remove people from my list without blocking them :/

[dragonshardz]

I've been playing. @dragonshardz.

[Graven]

Ok, I have a few questions : First, I'm at about 50+ on each stat, and levelling them up is getting annoying. What I've been doing is use second-chance items, skip the second chance, retry storylet again without repercussions. Since I spent a long period of only accepting invites, I have about 150+ of each second chance item... or had. Getting 10 points in watchful decimated my Sudden Insights, and levelling up dangerous is doing the same. Is there a more efficient way of levelling stats?

And second : seriously, who is still playing this? I think I'm only sure of Glyph right now

[GlyphGryph]

Are you doing "impossible" tasks? That's the quickest way to level... but it DOES use up the sudden insights at an impressive pace.

Ronald Miasma is still my go-to guy for a lot of stuff, still very active.

Of course....

Echo Bazaar no longer exists.

O____O

[Theodolus]

Heh. Yup, it's Fallen London now. I'm still very active at least during the week. I'll be getting more active on the weekends now that my home computer is back up and running. Well, that or actually getting back in to Skyrim... Feel free to send invites to me as I will always accept them.