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Author Topic: Fallen London : Explore Neil Gaiman's Victorian London ... in your browser!  (Read 143715 times)

nenjin

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I've sort of been exposed to the "Name...." storyline in Sunless Sea. So it doesn't hold a ton of fascination for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And while I enjoyed the one ambition I did (Light Fingers, it had a really entertaining section in the middle while the rest of it was pretty by the numbers), the fact it's never been finished tells me 99% of the other ambitions aren't finished either. So eh. I think I'm just jaded because my ability to appreciate FL solely on the merits of the writing and the story has been diminished after years of grinding and ignoring the writing attached to said grinding. It's hard for me to see the magic in FL anymore, and I think that happens to a lot of people who spend enough time with the game.
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puke

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"This is a storyline where the pay off is 100% on you and your appreciation of the story. Do not pursue it if that's not the reason that's motivating you, or you will be mad/disappointed/sad.

Thats pretty much 100% of the reason to play the game, right?


my ability to appreciate FL solely on the merits of the writing and the story has been diminished after years of grinding and ignoring the writing attached to said grinding. It's hard for me to see the magic in FL anymore, and I think that happens to a lot of people who spend enough time with the game.

Hmm, yes, this is true.  I tend to click through rapidly, and only half skim cards that might be new...
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E. Albright

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And the "Seeking the Name" business sounds apocalyptic enough, maybe it is a good capstone?

Mostly the grind puts me off, I come and go from the game with some long gaps between playing.

If it remains much like what it was, Seeking will be an obscene grind.

I made my own capstone (i.e., approximating the fulfillment of my Destiny) and walked away with no regrets. That seems a better course than ending with the Grind of Grinds, but it may have changed and/or YMMV.
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hops

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Thing is, as someone who had been an Exceptional Member for half a year now, and still flip-flopping between continuing or taking a break, I feel Fallen London is very much about the Fate-locked content. Don't think of it as a free browser game with occasional premium content. This is a commercial interactive fiction with occasional free content. All the nice things are Fate-locked.

But, is it really nice enough to shell out? I'm not sure. I personally feel that there are a lot of detestable design decisions on the part of Failbetter Games. Weird, given how much thought they have shown to put into their work, and here's why: their mission is a difficult one. They're breathing new life and innovation in a genre that had been stagnating, well, for longer than my lifetime at any rate. Of course, that's unfair to people like Emily Short and the folks working on Versu. Interactive fictions have made progress from text adventures which is the textual progenitor to point and click, to more plot-oriented and illusionary free will of The Walking Dead, Blood & Laurels, and Choice of Games.

Is it better? Well, personally, it's complicated. Interactive fiction is a genre very unhappy with itself and with different approaches to things, which at this point in time seem to have more flaws than strengths compared to other games/fiction. Choice of Games for example opt for more quantity and choices, which result in most of their games having long passages of text I would rather skim. Fallen London goes for quality. They have jack shit in term of choices or reasonable pricing. Or content for that matter.

And that's also another thing. As someone who reguarly spend money on FBG's words, I'm qualified to say that holy fish they charge a lot for words. It's understandable, given that authors command more rates than you would imagine. You just don't notice it when buying books because the economies of scale is at work.

So Fate-locked content? Are overpriced as heck. But I'm playing them because I want to support Failbetter, and in extension, Fundbetter, and in extension, more innovation in the genre of interactive fiction, hoping that one day they'll strike a happy medium between all factors of enjoyment.
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BlackHeartKabal

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The difference between you and I is that I'm not paying for overpriced content. If I wanted to pay money to read something, I'd go buy a book, but I can just go to a library and check one out for free. FL is a lovely setting, but I'm not paying gobs of money for relatively small content when I could pay the same for a novel that catches my eye. "One day" is too far away for time to strike a medium between entertainment.
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hops

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Well I meant I also like FL's content too, just that under normal circumstances I would find them too overpriced. Also, borrowing books don't benefit the author, and that's why I read Ender Game from libraries.
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BlackHeartKabal

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Relatively insane charging based on the quality of your own work seems pretentious. I don't hate Failbetter, but -

I'll place a book's value anywhere between $5 and $15 from some quick googling. 45 Fate, according to Failbetter, is worth $10. I haven't done any of these stories in FL, so I'll consider Flint worth 4 chapters, 45 Fate stories worth 2 chapters, and the rest at a single chapter. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Flint - 120 Fate.
Haunting at the Marsh-House, The Court of Cats, Lost in Reflections, The Last Dog Society, Cut with Moonlight, Discernment, Art of Murder, The Waltz That Moved The World - 45 Fate each.
The Gift, The Blemmigan Affair - 30 Fate.
A Trade in Souls, A Trade in Faces, The Rubbery Murders, A Long Lost Daughter - 25 Fate each.

If I added that correctly, that's 640 fate. Five Minutes to Midday will be 45 Fate if I don't subscribe this month, which would add 45, making a total of 695 Fate. 125 dollars.

28 chapters worth for 125 dollars, whereas I could buy more, singular stories but end up with more content altogether.

Interesting.
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nenjin

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"This is a storyline where the pay off is 100% on you and your appreciation of the story. Do not pursue it if that's not the reason that's motivating you, or you will be mad/disappointed/sad.

Thats pretty much 100% of the reason to play the game, right?

Not completely? There is definitely an appeal in the mechanics when you're starting out. A real appeal. There's things to fail, interesting consequences for failing sometimes, mystery, exploration. Novelty. Things to acquire that are useful to you, and a constantly expanding and evolving web of story options.

When you've been playing FL for years however, the illusion slowly gets stripped away. The stat grind ends. You can no longer fail 99% of the game, and even if you do, you've built up so much cushion against penalties that they're meaningless. New gear? Meaningless at 200+ stats. All that remains are the resource grinds to achieve a story end. I ground for the entirety of the Presumptuous Opportunity Card, not knowing what the pay off was. Turns out, it was nothing for someone not doing that Ambition (that I know of.)

Put another way. Once you hit the high level in Fallen London, it's like re-reading the first 99% of a book for days, months, even years on end, just so you can read the last two paragraphs of the story. Whatever climatic finish or closure you're seeking is diminished by the grind that's required to experience it. In the beginning of FL, this isn't a problem. You move from story to story at a good clip, see new things constantly, are delighted and surprised regularly. Once you hit Person of Some Importance however, the activities change. What's asked of you changes. Grinds, story-esqe grinds like Archeology in the Forgotten Quarter, open-ended grinds like Polythreme, the Carnelian Coast, Burglary, Writing Short Stories....it all just works in the opposite direction of their story goals when they make you repeat it ad nauseam.

That and I dunno. After FL and Sunless Sea, I just appreciate Failbetter's narrative style less than when I started with these things. I've talked about it a bit here and in the SS thread but, familiarity breeds contempt I guess. Failbetter deals in broad strokes, evocative imagery that manages to imply a lot and say very little. Or how every character is conceptualized as "adjective" "profession." It starts making these story endings you're grinding to achieve seem almost trite. That's not to say they can't finish a story dramatically but the vast majority of them feel like the end up in a dismissive shrug. And that's also not to say that they don't build a large world out of many interesting details and mysteries; they do. Piecing together your own understanding of what the world is about is part of the fun.....but the pieces never actually come together. They're held together by supposition, ambiguity and sometimes deliberate contradiction for narrative effect. There's just so many "tricks" to their stories and style that the deeper I got into it, the less successful those tricks were at entertaining me.

I mean, it's good enough I played a web game for years. Religiously even. But the end-game is vastly less entertaining than the early and mid game. When nothing new under the roof can happen until you pay out for Fate, and know that these are very self-contained stories, it's just not much of a motivation to keep playing.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 10:56:33 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

hops

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Well, here's hoping Fundbetter games will outshine Fallen London.
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hops

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IcyTea31

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Not bad at all. May I ask what you're going to do with your abomination of/to science?
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zaimoni

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Hello ... saw this thread and decided to take a new look at Fallen London (my first exposure was 2012, and the promotional material then wasn't compelling enough for me to jump in then).  The promotional material (wiki, etc.) is much better now than then.

1) How fast will I hit the option for fate-locked content if I start playing?  (This is to manage cashflow; with Neil Gaiman in the branding I know the pricing is for graphic novels, not prose).

2) Is the game still locked down to same-platform friends?  (This would be *very* painful, I'm not that well connected on social networks.)
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IcyTea31

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1) How fast will I hit the option for fate-locked content if I start playing?
Almost instantly after the tutorial, though it is completely optional. I haven't paid a penny and feel I haven't missed too much so far.

Quote
2) Is the game still locked down to same-platform friends?
To my knowledge, no.
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hops

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Not bad at all. May I ask what you're going to do with your abomination of/to science?
Originally planned to get a Royal Suite in the Royal Beth Hotel, but the grind took so long, that I now have a Spire Emporium, so the Impossible Theorem will stay in my possession until it is possible to establish a camp in Parabola in the far future, where M. Cinder will use to stage their invasion in dreamscape and become god.

Or, you know, start a dream-tourism business.

Oh, and I suppose I'll get a suite in the nuthouse during Christmas. :P
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she/her. (Pronouns vary over time.) The artist formerly known as Objective/Cinder.

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IcyTea31

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The language of the stars is now my job. Paradigm shifts, ho!
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