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[billybobfred]

Not gonna just sit on the vote, though.

You said this after withdrawing your vote for ed boy. It seems that everytime you don't get a response, you give up and simply move on to someone else.

I've gotten shit in previous games for sitting on a vote instead of doing anything useful. So I'm not doing that anymore. If I can't get anything out of someone and I don't want to lynch that person, my vote needs to be somewhere else.

Well, you seemed to be irritated by my previous analysis, so I offered you some more arbitrary reasons for choosing those two. How is that strawmanning?

That's how. You're giving a blatantly shitty alternative and treating it as an actual argument against my point.

I don't want arbitrary reasons. I don't actually think your reasons were bad. It just looked like you were trying to avoid betraying any kind of personal preference. It's overly cautious, and that's a scum trait.

When ed boy didn't respond, you didn't bother to press for actual reasons. Instead you withdrew your vote and started on backtobasesix. It seems that you don't actually want to go too deep and are just voting for pressure.

"Actual reasons"? I didn't think he was lying. I believe the reasons he gave were his actual reasons, I just didn't like them. Thinking something is scummy isn't the same as thinking something is false.

Zombie urist. You say that all I'm doing is complaining about basesix lurking. Reread, and then tell me...

where did you get this completely false idea? I mentioned the lurking only when others brought it up. The entirety of my focus on basesix at this time is from wanting a question answered. Lurking doesn't even enter into it!

Well then please tell me what else you have contributed in scumhunting. I don't really care if you didn't mention lurking, since that's not the point. I do care that you haven't done much more while waiting for your question to get answered. All you did was answer other people's questions.

Yeah, I admit, I haven't done a lot. Mea fucking culpa. I'm done with that now.

(For some reason, I thought the focus of your accusation was the "complaining about basesix" part, which is the part I was addressing.)

You know what, I changed my mind. I'm not most suspicious of basesix anymore.

This seems rather arbitrary. All the information was there before. Why didn't you look into it earlier?

Because, like an idiot, I was waiting patiently for basesix to show up. But as I've said, I'm done with that.

I dropped the ed boy thing because I didn't really know what I was doing with it. He was overly numbery, I told him why that was bad... That's all I had. To be frank, he's doing exactly what I would do if I didn't already know why it was wrong, so I can't really see it as that scummy.

And how did you come to that conclusion? Did Toaster tell you?

... Which conclusion? The "he's doing what I would do" conclusion? Well, I know what he's doing, and I know what I would do if I didn't already know why what he was doing was wrong, and they're the same thing. That seems too obvious, though; are you actually asking why I can't judge it as particularly scummy? Well, I'm town, and he's doing something I would do under slightly different circumstances.

Quite frankly, I'm wondering why you think Toaster could have told me that. It's a judgement of my own personality under circumstances he hasn't seen. He's not qualified to say what I would have done!

-snip-

See what I said to Orangebottle about using every post of a player as evidence.

How, precisely, are these scummy? There's no crime against being Captain Obvious. Similarly, while you say a lot of his questions are useless, he (and I) might disagree. What's the best piece of evidence you have against him?

zombie urist already pointed out your lack of commitment concerning your vote, so I'd like to see those issues answered as well.

I don't like Captain Obvious reasoning because it looks like scumhunting, but it doesn't require any actual scumhunting effort. Maybe that's not as big a deal as I think it is, but it's not completely ignorable.

His questions are useless (in my opinion) because they consisted of "same question someone else asked", "what is scumhunting", and "why did you do this". The latter wouldn't normally be bad, but the "this" in question was a post that contained the answer to the question. And the only reason I like his question of IronyOwl is because of IO's answer -- but he probably didn't expect that IO being an IC would change the dynamic that much.

I used all his posts as evidence because the thing I was trying to support was that he hadn't made any good posts. If I had left out a post, someone would have said (rightfully so!) that this implied that I thought the ignored post was good, and that my argument was therefore invalid.

My "lack of commitment" was the first thing I answered in this post. That's not anything against you, I just don't want to type it out again.


Speaking of "not waiting for my current focus" and "being an IC changes the game", Jim, if the Random Number Goddess had granted you the position of roleblocker, who would you block and why?

[Jim Groovester]

I dropped the ed boy thing because I didn't really know what I was doing with it. He was overly numbery, I told him why that was bad... That's all I had. To be frank, he's doing exactly what I would do if I didn't already know why it was wrong, so I can't really see it as that scummy.

And how did you come to that conclusion? Did Toaster tell you?

... Which conclusion? The "he's doing what I would do" conclusion? Well, I know what he's doing, and I know what I would do if I didn't already know why what he was doing was wrong, and they're the same thing. That seems too obvious, though; are you actually asking why I can't judge it as particularly scummy? Well, I'm town, and he's doing something I would do under slightly different circumstances.

Quite frankly, I'm wondering why you think Toaster could have told me that. It's a judgement of my own personality under circumstances he hasn't seen. He's not qualified to say what I would have done!

'Cuz Toaster is the scum IC. Maybe you asked him about it?

If your empathy explanation is really what happened, why didn't you say it when you unvoted him? The only explanation you gave is that you were sitting on your vote, which isn't what you were doing since you were going after answers fairly aggressively.

I used all his posts as evidence because the thing I was trying to support was that he hadn't made any good posts. If I had left out a post, someone would have said (rightfully so!) that this implied that I thought the ignored post was good, and that my argument was therefore invalid.

My gosh you nubfaces are green.

You already undermined your argument in the list of posts you made, by making several admissions that not everything zombie urist has done was completely terrible.

So why was drudging up all his posts necessary then? (It wasn't. Focus on the strongest pieces of evidence etc. etc.)

I don't like Captain Obvious reasoning because it looks like scumhunting, but it doesn't require any actual scumhunting effort. Maybe that's not as big a deal as I think it is, but it's not completely ignorable.

You'll have to tell me how the answers zombie urist gives are so obvious that he should completely avoid mentioning them altogether.

I'll also point out that many times you call him Captain Obvious he's asking questions directed at him. How is answering questions with simple reasoning or answers a crime?

It's not. You're suspecting him for terrible reasons.

His questions are useless (in my opinion) because they consisted of "same question someone else asked", "what is scumhunting", and "why did you do this". The latter wouldn't normally be bad, but the "this" in question was a post that contained the answer to the question. And the only reason I like his question of IronyOwl is because of IO's answer -- but he probably didn't expect that IO being an IC would change the dynamic that much.

I'll grant you that a lot of his questions are pretty meh, but there are many that aren't.

You'll have to explain exactly how his questions are shitty, because otherwise you're giving him shit for terrible reasons. For example, this post:

6. Stupid questions and crappy attempts to defend previous examples of such.

Those questions are actually pretty good. They are good things to ask about. Why don't you think so?

The more I look at your case on zombie urist the less I like it, billybobfred.

Speaking of "not waiting for my current focus" and "being an IC changes the game", Jim, if the Random Number Goddess had granted you the position of roleblocker, who would you block and why?

In a game full of newbies it's hard to identify who the power roles are. It's hard to do that anyway.

I would block Flandre. This is a complete guess. I haven't looked for doctells or coptells in any of the players so far.

[Urist_McArathos]

Mod: how long till day's end?

[Max White]

Urist_McArathos: Well I just woke up, and slept in a little, but seven minutes.

[Urist_McArathos]

This has been a horrible day 2.  In the event I get NKed, I suspect billybob and zombie urist at this time.  I don't have much to go on for either of them, but there you go. 

[Urist_McArathos]

Sorry, meant horrible day1.  I was thinking of my other game when I said day2

[Max White]

Night 1 - Deep, Dark and Deadly

Tonight's theme song: Abney Park - Death of the Hero

After a long day, the crew loot at one another, and decide they must take action if they ever want to survive. Ed boy must be the criminal among you, or at least one of them. There was no other way, he would have to be taken care of.

“So how do we do it?” Flandre asks, “I mean should we fire him out of a torpedo tube and let him drown? I don't think they gave us anything like that”

“No, “Replies IronyOwl, with a harsh expression, “There is a better way. Grab him and follow me”

Zombie Urist and Urist McArathos grab Edboy by either arm, and drag him, kicking and screaming through the sub towards the on board chemical lab. When they arrive, they find IronyOwl already going through a chemical closet. He retrieves a large syringe, filled with a light blue liquid.

“You fools!”, shouts Ed boy, “I'm not trying to kill you, I'm trying to save you!”

“Funny, that is the kind of thing that anybody would say” says irony, as she stabs Ed boy in the kneck, injecting the blue liquid.

After several minutes, Edd boy begins convulsing uncontrollably, before he hits he's head on a nearby table and is knocked out, never to awake.

“So, what do we do now? Asks Billybobfred

Not knowing what else to do, they decide to go ever Ed boys personal belongings. Among them they find a diary, with the last entery.

'I feel sure that what ever did that could not have been human! I must find out what is going on, the proper and sane way. If I can get DNA samples from some suspects, I can confirm my suspicions, and prove who commit these horrible acts for sure. I just need to wait until night time to get a sample without being seen. If I am correct, and we are not dealing with human life, then I am the only one on board able to run a DNA scan accurate enough to tell for sure, making me a high priority target, so I will need to try and lay low today.'

In despair, the crew decide to all find their own place to sleep for that night, not trusting anybody else enough to watch over them in the night. That day they killed not only an innocent man, but one who could have been their slavation.


Votecount

Flandre[0]:
Urist_McArathos[0]:
billybobfred[1]: Jim Groovester
ed boy[3]: IronyOwl, zombie urist, Urist_McArathos
backtobasesix[0]:
zombie urist[1]: billybobfred
Orangebottle[0]:
Jim Groovester[0]:
IronyOwl[0]:

Not voting: backtobasesix, ed boy, Flandre, Orangebottle

Ed boy, the genetic researcher (Town cop) has been lynched!

The night will end 4:00 pm, Thursday the 25th, forum time. You need 3 votes to extend and 5 to shorten.


Why is the game locked?
Welcome to the night phase! During the night, players may not post in the main thread, but scum players can continue to post in their scumchat. This is when you may use your night actions, so
Town power roles may send in their actions to me via PM.
Scum may plan their night kill in scumchat, be sure that you have clearly identified a target before the end of the night.

For the rest of you, don't worry, the night will end soon, and you will return to playing the game.

[Max White]

Day 2 – Stains of blood

Today's theme song: Anamanaguchi – Mermaid

The crew was awoken suddenly to the sound of something large hitting against the sub, then again, and again. In a repeating rhythm, the walls of the submarines shutter under heavy blows. Unsure of what could cause this, the weary crew begin to gather again. Tired and hungry, they decide that they all must eat some time, and head into the kitched for a small breakfast.

There they find Urist McArathos, lying dead in the middle of the table, with he's chest ripped open and several limbs missing.  Most of the room was stained with blood, and small chunks of flesh were scattered about the table. The crew found they they had suddenly lost their appetites, and in it's place a sudden desire to escape this hell. With n other means of escape, they decided to try to fix the broken radio to call for help, and made there way to the radio room.

It was a second or two before they noticed that the corpse of the communications officer was missing from the room, leaving only more stains of blood in it's place. Even the arm that has been ripped off was missing.

Where did the body go? How was  Urist McArathos? And will this ever end?



Votecount

Flandre[0]:
billybobfred[0]:
Mormota[0]:
zombie urist[0]:
Orangebottle[0]:
Jim Groovester[0]:
IronyOwl[0]:

Not voting: Mormota, Flandre, Orangebottle, Jim Groovester, billybobfred, IronyOwl, zombie urist

Urist McArathos (Townie) has be night killed!
Mormota has replaced backtobasesix!

The day will end 4:00 pm, Tuesday the 30th, forum time. You need 3 votes to extend and 5 to shorten.


About being dead
Once a player has died, they  are 'out of the game' for the time being. They are no longer allowed to post in the main thread, except a single 'blah' post. They will, however, be given a link to deadchat where they can talk about the current game and how it is going. They may still not PM active players about an active game, but as always they can PM me about any questions.

A good blah post has no game changing information, it dosn't incriminate or vindicate anybody, and is just a brief last comment. For example, a good blah post may say 'And now I am the dead' because it gives away nothing of importance at all that we didn't already know. A bad blah post would tell everybody about night actions or something of that nature.

[Jim Groovester]

billybobfred, I still want my questions answered.

Things to do once somebody flips: Look over their posts, and read everything they said. Since you now know their alignment you can look at what they posted in a that light. It probably won't be fantastically helpful but it's still something to do.

[Orangebottle]

Hello Moroma, do you have any way to explain your predecessor's lurkiness?

Also: I have reread the thread and found little to nothing to go on that hasn't already been said. I'll give it another go.

[billybobfred]

<.< I'm about to replace out for lack of time. Should I answer your questions anyway or cut off my in-game presence entirely right now?

[Toaster]

[/scum]

The polite thing to do is participate as best you can until you're actually replaced.

[scum]

Go team scum!

[Jim Groovester]

<.< I'm about to replace out for lack of time. Should I answer your questions anyway or cut off my in-game presence entirely right now?

Yes.

Unless you're completely unable to.

[billybobfred]

All right, I'll do that, since I at least have time right this moment.

'Cuz Toaster is the scum IC. Maybe you asked him about it?

If your empathy explanation is really what happened, why didn't you say it when you unvoted him?

I know Toaster is the scum IC. I got the implication behind that. The thing I was confused about is, given that Toaster has never seen me actually do what ed boy was doing, how could he possibly know that I would do it if I knew slightly less than I do? If I realize it myself, I can and will come up with the logical conclusion without Toaster. If I don't realize it myself, Toaster can't bring me to the logical conclusion. There is zero reason to believe Toaster was involved.

I didn't mention the empathy thing when I unvoted ed boy because it wasn't a reason for it. I unvoted him because I had no idea where to go with my line of questioning. The empathy thing was just something I considered when judging his actions. Though it's not as useful now that it's revealed he wasn't vanilla...

You'll have to explain exactly how his questions are shitty, because otherwise you're giving him shit for terrible reasons. For example, this post:

6. Stupid questions and crappy attempts to defend previous examples of such.

Those questions are actually pretty good. They are good things to ask about. Why don't you think so?

First: Technically that's one question, singular, though since I missed that fact first I won't blame you for repeating my mistake.
Second: The question is, basically, "Why did you do this thing that you explained while you were doing it?" Why is that not a shitty question? If you wanted to claim his questions weren't shitty, that's probably the single worst one to point to -- why did you choose that one?

[Jim Groovester]

That's not all of my questions.

You can't cherry pick what questions you want to answer. You have to answer them all. Especially if I'm breathing down your neck about it.