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[Vibhor]

You never actually played Apoc in real time mode, did you? You do know it pauses, right?
Not one of your 'arguments' holds any weight given the fact you don't even know how the game works (that your you didn't know the game paused and slowed down).

How is this relevant in anyway? You could pause at any given second in warcraft 3. Didn't make it any more strategic. You could even change the combat system to turn based but it didn't matter because the game was meant to be played as a real time strategy instead of turn based or even "real time with a pause".

What is the difference between losing 2 hitpoints every 'turn' vs losing two hit points every 'second'? I can pause every two seconds, heck, I can pause every quarter second and reissue orders. In turn based bleeding and wounds tend to be a non-issue: 'oh, i got shot? ok, I'll just use my turn to safely get behind cover and and initiate healing without any risk at all' or 'I'll use my turn to kill the enemy with other units, and heal my guy safely in place'. In realtime you can continue to take fire while retreating and trying to killt he opponent actually takes time during which your guy can be shot again and bleed more.

Excuse me, are you reading a completely different post? I said the exact same thing. Are you just paraphrasing me? The thing is, orders can be issued any given time but they can only work in real time. Which means every second your guy would take damage until death. This not only makes it more horrible, being real time it makes it even less manageable.

And the fact alone that you declare turn based to be more realistic, then complain that real time does not allow 'one man armying' just ruins your credibility.
Once again, it is evident you have never ACTUALLY played (meaning put time into) a real time with pause game, such as real time Xcom Apoc or 7.62 High Calibre or the likes.

Are you saying that one man armying is unrealistic? It depends upon the situation and is very much possible in the situation I had given in my post.
Also,I never said turn based is more realistic. What I said that it allows the insertion of more realistic elements while still being manageable than real time. And no I have not played 7.62 High Calibre at all but I most certainly have played a reasonable amount of Xcom Apocalypse

Real Time with Smart Pause does not equal RTS, for the record.

I have never issued an order in Xcom Apoc while the game was unpaused. Not once. I am pausing every few seconds at the longest, and every fraction of a second during battle. 7.62's awesome configurable autopause (aka Smart Pause) was great for that reason. Try looking down and finding the space bar key on your keyboard, then use that while playing xcom apoc in realtime mode and tell me'it gets very hectic'.[/quote]
And what does this has to do with anything? Is this supposed to be some argument or something? If yes then you blew it out of water by using the word "I". Yes "I", it implies something you do. Not necessarily anyone else. I for once have played apocalypse without the use of the pause feature. I got very far too. But then I lost interest and started playing the first one(apocalypse was the first xcom I ever played) Thats when I realized how flimsy the real time element of apocalypse really was. If you want to give examples of a GOOD real time(with a pause or whatever) system then choose anything other than apocalypse. Also, I never said the game gets hectic. I merely said real time combat tends to get hectic and the developers chose to elongate the lifespan of characters to compensate for the switch to real time.

[Zangi]

Hey... if it has destructible environment and allows me to haphazardly dual wield auto cannons with explosive ammo.... I am all for Real Time.

Personally, I loved the pause and go of Apocalypse, but that is me.  I just did the whole tactical placement and cover fire/choke point set-up... then practically ignored em till they start getting injured as I control the strike team.  Or at least if/when I need to tighten the noose.
Accuracy?  That is such a foreign concept.  Keep firing till you hit something!  Then fire some more!

For me, it has the same tension as it would in JA when I want to rescue or pull back an injured comrade... except with more bullets flying around.  Seriously, suppression fire as they do in 1.13 would be epic.

[Vibhor]

The argument we were having was not that real time is absolute crap. I was merely stating that the shift from turn based to real time was not an improvement. It was a change as both systems have their own weakness and strengths(okay I am biased way towards the turn based but that is a non issue here). It wasn't an argument until someone argued the needless semantics of the post.

[Ozyton]

For those interested, a demo has been released.

Played the tutorial mission and for some reason it makes my graphics card heat up a bit. Just noting that because that's how my previous 2 graphics cards died, though those were really old and the second one had a heating problem anyways.

[Mullet Master]

For those interested, a demo has been released.

Really hope the demo isn't the quality of the final game. Took all of 20 seconds to get annoyed with it... you have to scroll the map with your keyboard! No way of pointing to a different section to zoom somewhere else!

Graphics are OK.

Steam already has it 15% off before release date .. what is the price point everyone is going to buy it?

[Sowelu]

The graphics were /slightly/ laggy for me, on my old computer, but the controls were ridiculously unresponsive.  Like, losing keypresses.  Probably because my machine was a bit slow but still!

[Vibhor]

Really hope the demo isn't the quality of the final game. Took all of 20 seconds to get annoyed with it... you have to scroll the map with your keyboard! No way of pointing to a different section to zoom

What is this world coming to?
Games not releasing demos and even when they do, its absolute shit.
Someone tell developers that demos are to video games what trailers are to movie. They need to be slick and show the best part of the games while leaving the player wanting for more.

[LoSboccacc]

no thank you. too many modern day trailers spoils the best part of movies and their ending.

we're to the point that you can just watch the trailer and be done with it (doesn't help films of today are extremely shallow)

[Ozyton]

If I were going to complain about the camera controls, it's that the camera accelerates a bit too quickly, and than the middle mouse button should rotate the camera, not pan it. It's annoying having to hold down Alt to rotate the camera.

Still haven't gotten around to playing the actual demo mission yet.

[Mullet Master]

If I were going to complain about the camera controls, it's that the camera accelerates a bit too quickly, and than the middle mouse button should rotate the camera, not pan it. It's annoying having to hold down Alt to rotate the camera.

Still haven't gotten around to playing the actual demo mission yet.

Holding down alt to rotate is a pretty defacto standard.
Dawn of war II, company of heroes.. I think men of war is that way, too.
And, I would agree with you on too much camera acceleration.

[ConscriptFive]

For those interested, a demo has been released.

Really hope the demo isn't the quality of the final game. Took all of 20 seconds to get annoyed with it...

Yeah, I really wanted to like it, but you end up facepalming about some of the weird design decisions they made.  The big dealbreaker is the lack of Fog of War.  The main thing I remember about JA2 is creeping around in the darkness, waiting to stumble onto an enemy, hoping you get off a shot before they do.

Now you have the whole battle laid out for you, and it's just a matter of setting up sniper killzones.  Pretty much every design decision (based off the demo) reinforces that as the ONLY reliable way to get ahead:

1. Grenades have clipping issues so they tend to not go through windows.
2. Explosives can only be used on designated points for breaching.  No using them like Claymore mines, or as heavy grenades.
3. The AI makes hearing checks quite well.  Sneaking up for a backstab or even a silenced SMG is pretty suicidal.
4. Some doors inexplicably only open from one side.  Even if you have a lockpick.
5. You can't shoot open doors.

While snipers were always dominant in JA2, at least your explosives and ninja-types were useful if you wanted to screw around.  In BIA (based off the demo,) they really aren't.

Another thing that irked me as that BIA has magical return-to-full-health style medpacks.  Your medic can use up items to completely restore health at anytime.  No more having to keep a bench roster to fill in for the wounded.   

I really wanted to like this game, and I don't think it's truly awful, but they really made some dumb decisions that kept this from being good.  I'll probably play the shit out of it still, but I'll be weeping the entire time for what could have been.

[Vibhor]

What about the switch from turn based to real time?
Does it make much difference in tactics whatsoever?

[scriver]

Scriver is disappoint with this demo.

[Slax]

It's Jagged Alliance without all of that messy Jagged Alliance! "YEAH!"

[Vherid]

This game is nowhere near as good as 2 1.13.