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[Graknorke]

In NV House was the best option, really. NCR were too big, too corrupt. Courier? He'd last...Maybe 2 years. Sheer willpower. Then Vegas would burn. Legion?

That one is fairly clear, no?

I dunno, the courier is the only one actually capable of getting the faction of the Mojave (minus the NCR and Legion) to work together instead of constantly trying to murder each other.
Though really I was going to go with House, until he demanded I destroy the Brotherhood. Fuck that guy, he's a dick.

[Orange Wizard]

Disregard this. I got confused when you started talking about a game that isn't Skyrim in the Skyrim thread.

[Graknorke]

BAH, NINJAS EVERYWHERE

[Flying Dice]

At least the Legion weren't under any illusions about being assholes, though.

Besides, everybody's least favorite jarl is, IIRC, being pretty heavily manipulated by the Thalmor.

Who's the Least Favorite Jarl? Is that Falkreath? I hate the Jarl but I love the area.

Nah, Ulfric. But yes, Siddgeir is a dick.

In NV House was the best option, really. NCR were too big, too corrupt. Courier? He'd last...Maybe 2 years. Sheer willpower. Then Vegas would burn. Legion?

That one is fairly clear, no?

I dunno, the courier is the only one actually capable of getting the faction of the Mojave (minus the NCR and Legion) to work together instead of constantly trying to murder each other.
Though really I was going to go with House, until he demanded I destroy the Brotherhood. Fuck that guy, he's a dick.

To be fair, so're most of the Brotherhood. They're just lesser dicks. Skyrim Brotherhood are a mixed bag.

[Rolan7]

Yeah House's inflexibility regarding the Brotherhood was the deciding factor for me.  I still felt really bad about killing him, though.  NCR versus House vs Courier was an actual interesting choice, which is pretty rare in gaming.

Skyrim finally finished downloading.  I'm standing in front of a bound dragon.  I talk to it, it calls me Rolan (by my preferred pronunciation, ro-laan).  That threw me for a loop 

[Putnam]

I can relate with his inflexibility when it comes to the brotherhood. Their values are so perfectly incompatible with mine.

[Sergius]

NV Brotherhood wasn't the same as the Washington Brotherhood, who were some sort of hi-tech Merry Men help-everybody clan. The NV ones where the classic "all tech is ours and fuck everyone else" kind of clan.

They basically where the same as the DC red ones, whatstheirnames, renegades in Fallout 3.

Still, between House and NCR the choice is far from clear. The Legion was just ridiculous, and also they were doomed to die off from having their exposed balls constantly irradiated.

[Putnam]

The Washington Brotherhood was the stupidest fucking thing in that game. It's the perfect example of that game's general in-name-only approach to Fallout.

[Sergius]

The Washington Brotherhood was the stupidest fucking thing in that game. It's the perfect example of that game's general in-name-only approach to Fallout.

I agree, the "vanilla" Brotherhood that carried from FO1 (in Fallout 2 was just one guy with an armor closet so meh) to NV was more interesting. Still, they are more dickish so it's less of a kick the puppy moment than if they had been the "sharing is caring" version of the DC BH.

Almost all "good" endings with the Brotherhood result in them taking all the futuretech from others and telling them to fuck off. They're horrible hoarders.

[Flying Dice]

Honestly they're practically Blood Ravens Bloody Magpies in a slightly lower-tech setting.

[NullForceOmega]

You know, I really think that there is way too much Brotherhood of Steel hate.  So what if they don't trust a bunch of wastelanders, to use the last generation of the U.S. Armys tech.  It's not like elder Maxson didn't go out of his way to gather as much intel (using the Vault Dweller, but that's just good sense) as possible on the super mutants, then mobilized his heavy artillery to blow the hell out of the army gathering outside of Mariposa for you.  Then he just went ahead and convinced the other elders to lend the strength of the Brotherhood to NCR, just so they'd stand a chance of actually making things work.  And I suppose the fact that they did in fact have a great many Paladins out in the wastes just for the purpose of eradicating remnants of the Masters Army is irrelevant too.  It isn't as if the real world armies aren't sitting on advanced weapons and intelligence tech right at this exact moment and don't trust the civilian populace as far as they could throw them.  The Brotherhood is just doing what armies do, consolidating an advantage, they don't have the numbers to do the job themselves, so they make equipment available to trustworthy individuals who can be effective.  I sure as hell wouldn't let the barely functional communities of the California wastelands have that kind of equipment either, or should we ignore the Kahns, Gizmos, and other black-hearted scum that thrived before the Vault Dweller reduced them to ash?  I know that this isn't the place for a Fallout discussion, but this anti-Brotherhood attitude the whole internet seems to have bugs the hell out of me.

[Flying Dice]

The issue is that as far as I can tell, most of them have forgotten why they do it, to the point where it's become dogmatic and automatic. It's not "We need to collect and preserve advanced technology to rebuild the world while keeping people from finishing the job through over-equipped infighting," so much as "Dirty barbarians, all lostech belongs to us."

Remember, the Brotherhood is drawn directly from survivors of the U.S. military just as the Enclave is more-or-less the same for the government. I don't doubt that a decent part of their portrayal is intentional; both are the normal behavior of their antecedents taken to relatively logical extremes created in a large part by tradition and distancing from both the mindset and knowledge of the institutions which they derived from. The Brotherhood is fundamentally not an army, it is a tech cult which carries the outward trappings of an army.

Somewhat amusingly, this parallels with Skyrim. Pre-Dovahkin involvement, the Brotherhood branch is not really a part of the Dark Brotherhood, it's a collection of murderers-for-hire which cloaks itself in the trappings of the Brotherhood.

[NullForceOmega]

I still find it hilarious that even though every other word the president of the Enclave speaks in FO2 is a lie, everyone takes his commentary about the origins of the Enclave and the Vault project seriously.  I mean really, this dude flat out lies to your face several times in a game that intentionally paints politcos as being lying scum, and no-one questions the truthfulness of his statements on these points?  And actually, I see no indication that the Brotherhood, an organization that preserves technology and KNOWLEDGE has forgotten it's primary motivations in any of the Black Isle/Obsidian games.  In fact I see a great deal of indication that they have taken steps to actively prevent the loss of those guiding principles by turning them into dogma.  To be clear I don't completely agree with their actions either, but in any situation where I must choose between the BoS and another force, the BoS will always have my support.  Also, saying that the BoS is not any army is fundamentally incorrect, they maintain military discipline, a rank structure, have codified regulations regarding all aspects of conduct, and a pretty much every other consideration necessary to be defined as an army.  Serving a nation or other patron is not part of the definition of an armed force.

On the primary topic of Skyrim, I am having a hellishly hard time raising my destruction skill.  My char is level 49, and my main combat skill is destruction, 90% of my kills are via spell, but my skill has been sitting at 75~ since level 30 or so.  This makes no sense to me as my secondary combat skill, 2H weapons is at 127, and I have numerous other skills above 80.

[Putnam]

They preserve the knowledge and do fuck-all with it. Not exactly a good thing.

[KingofstarrySkies]

One: 'Tis just the Mojave chapter. They're so isolated they forgot how to protect the wasteland like they were taught to. Also, they believe they are keeping people safe from themselves.

Two: House originally could've been convinced into letting the Brotherhood work with them, and all the files are there, including the ending. Mods are fun.

FO3 Brotherhood, however, was badass.