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[Karkov]

I was a fan of the Better Vampires mod.  Was really adjustable, gave you something to actually vampire around about (increasing levels and whatnot) and had the ability to increase your jump height, which was pretty cool (via those pre-disclosed vampire levels).

Haven't tried the other mod, so I'm pretty biased in this opinion.  Also, my Skyrim experience usually boiled down to me downloading 8 or 10 mods before playing, saving, using all the mods to see which ones were fun/pretty looking, then crashing to desktop again because those characters weren't meant to move that fast.

Also, Grizzly, lore-wise I'm pretty sure most of the Vampires are the powerful necromancers.  You'd probably need someone with more lore-knowledge than me to give you a correct answer though, I don't know of any cases where they did or didn't.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Well you can summon a lich, and those are powerful necromancers as well. So my guess would be yes, so long as the necromancer is more powerful than the vampire, but that might not sit well with vampire players, (and so there might be a clause like, 'No, Molag Bal/Vaermina wouldn't have it.').

[Karkov]

Well you can summon a lich, and those are powerful necromancers as well. So my guess would be yes, so long as the necromancer is more powerful than the vampire, but that might not sit well with vampire players, (and so there might be a clause like, 'No, Molag Bal/Vaermina wouldn't have it.').

It's possible (I'm probably just talking out of my ass, take this with a grain of salt) that Vampires in the TES lore still retain their souls.  Or at least the PC does.  If that's a thing, Necromancers would probably have a hard time controlling a corpse, or body for that matter, with a soul still inside of it.  The reason I think the PC Vampire still has his soul is because you can revert the vampiric process, becoming human again with no difficulties other than scrounging up some alchemical components.  Liches notoriously don't have souls, or more correctly, place their souls in phylacteries so that their body can move autonomously, and regenerate at the place of his phylactery in case the body is eventually destroyed (not sure if that's a thing with TES liches, but it is for liches in general so I'm making an assumption.  I don't know how the Dragon Priests work.  Someone will come in with a better explanation than I can make at work where it'd be frowned upon for looking into TES lore and whatnot).

The reason I think you can summon a lich is because it's more of a manifestation of magicka, and it'd be tied to your soul more than anything.

FAKEDIT:  I'll probably delete this when lore-bearing-man comes to save the day.

[Putnam]

They still have souls.

Phylacteries are only for people in the process of becoming liches in TES. Liches like Mannimarco no longer have need for theirs.

[Mr. Strange]

Not lore-bearer but I thought summoned undead came from Ideal Masters (who try to trap those necromancers they deal with), while raised undead were more conventional necro work since you need an actual corpse for it.

[Putnam]

Not lore-bearer but I thought summoned undead came from Ideal Masters (who try to trap those necromancers they deal with), while raised undead were more conventional necro work since you need an actual corpse for it.

Summoned undead are lesser Daedra bound to fleshy bodies, I think, but the Ideal Masters' involvement sounds just as likely.

EDIT: Just heard that ESO gives the former explanation. Huh.

[Mr. Strange]

EDIT: Just heard that ESO gives the former explanation. Huh.

So, the later is true then?

[Putnam]

Nah, I like some stuff in ESO.

Except that thing about the transcription error. Saw a screenie of an in-game book.

They stuck to their guns, alright.

And they said that it was a scholar named "Heimskr" who wrote it in the first place and the mistake was made in transcribing from him.

Heimskr. A meta joke about a guy who yells at the top of his lungs in Skyrim about CHIM being used to change Cyrodiil... being used to make fun of people who think that that explanation is better than "lol they wrote it wrong."

Not to mention what Heimskr means.

[WillowLuman]

So, summoned undead ARE just daedra in disguise? I have to say that's rather disappointing. What the hell was the point of introducing the whole ideal masters thing if they were just going to piss on it?

[LeoLeonardoIII]

A flimsy yet needlessly complicated justification for more fetch quests? It's almost like they're writing a TES game!

[Putnam]

The Ideal Masters are... another thing. Conjuration ain't necromancy, mind. I think that getting an army of undead from the Ideal Masters is probably easier than conjuring a bunch of the Daedra undead.

[WillowLuman]

It just seems wrong to me somehow. Why not just summon them in Daedric forms? Isn't the Ideal Masters having set up their own plane of Oblivion a convenient enough explanation for conjuring undead? Why go for such a convoluted explaination? Why turn such a significant lore addition (an entire other plane of Oblivion) into a mere plot device for a single quest?

[Putnam]

It's not like planes of Oblivion are rare. Sanguine has a good 10,000.

[Teneb]

Actually, Putnam, could you say the source that claims they are daedra forced into corpses? Because as far as I remember, only Flesh Atronachs are like that.

[WillowLuman]

He didn't say Daedra forced into corpses. Apparently the various "summon undead" spells in Morrowind and Oblivion just summon Daedra disguised as undead for some reason. But a source would be nice.