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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1616187 times)

Devastator

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9840 on: January 03, 2014, 10:32:12 pm »

I'm sure some of it can be found, but here's a few of the ones not elaborated on:

Color filters, here's two shots of a dungeon:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just laziness.

NPCs, well, here's probably the quickest way to put it.  Here is the UESP link for the entire listing of NPCs for Morrowind and Skyrim, respectively.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:People

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:People

Do click around some of the subcategories on that Morrowind page, and remember that wholly dozens of them are merchants, do spellcrafting, are blacksmiths, etcetera.  There's also a services page if you want to view them that way.  A few clicks around the services page and it'll pretty much describe what I mean by 'useless' too.  But don't worry, they're all marked 'essential' to boot in Skryim, otherwise you might possibly be unable to complete a quest!

All so you can, well, have unique access to improved weapons and armour through map objects, that although many NPCs look like they're using, do not actually do anything with them.  Most egregious is probably the enchanter in the Mages Guild, who despite having a business and giving dynamic delivery missions, will refuse flatly to actually do any enchanting.

The quests that use gameplay elements things, well.. at the bare minimum, can we have a quest to steal something that could actually result in a crime?  Other than the initial quest when they ask you to reverse pickpocket a zero-difficulty target, they don't ever ask you to do any crimes.  The Mages guild questline requires you to cast one spell.  The fighter's guild questline gives you indestructable companions for almost all parts of it.  The quests to kill people have the targets alone or have attacks on them not result in assault charges.. and their guards usually attack first.  If we're supposed to have these features, why are they so absent from quests?

Realistic sized weaponry is not anything special for Skyrim, and almost invalid to complain about.  Basically all fantasy games use ridiculously oversized weapons and armour, even if they are fairly restrained for the industry.

Do you have links for the no-dragons mod or a 'cities use external cells' mod?  I would also be interested in the no superpowers mod, as the game falls pretty much in the vampires are cool and werewolves get free powers camp.  I also doubt there's a mod that'll make build decisions matter, as the first step for that would be removing shouts, as they break the game all by themselves, and there's a lot of times you are but thou must'ed into using them, hence requiring a lot of fancy cleanup work.

Some of the lore complaints are minor, but there's a number that stand out.  The werewolves, for instance, are literally stealing power from the god of the wild at an altar under an ancient forge in a major city.  There are no repercussions to this action.  There are probably some mods that help out, but with the script being entirely voice-acted, and with quest functionality being dependant on so many seperate things, (NPC conversational triggers, NPC location triggers, animation triggers, quest stages, etcetera,) the problems are not easy to solve, and very easy to mess things up further.  Plus there's well, plenty more examples other than that one.
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Devastator

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9841 on: January 03, 2014, 10:35:48 pm »

I can't look at anything, I'm frozen in a two-year-old vanilla version because they replaced all the good bugs with but thou musts, empty rooms, and blank walls, and I live in constant fear of steam making all my saves invalid.  Does sound fairly interesting, though.

Huh.  I suppose it's better than my philosophy of keeping everything perfectly up to date and constantly swapping out my mod loadout as I chase after the newest and shiniest thing, strictly speaking.  I've never beaten the main storyline, never played through most of the major quest chains, never even started the civil war storyline, and only once gotten a character over level 20 before changing one mod or another forced me to delete all of my save files due to core incompatibilities.

Of course, all these mod lists inspired me to change out my mod loadout again, which caused me to restart yet again.  Coincidence of coincidences, glancing over Skyrim Redone's Wayfarer perk tree made me pick a stealth archer outdoors ranger for the latest whim. *shrug*

I'm so much like this also.

I suspect the constant change helps keep your interest up.  I'm of the opinion that Skyrim is like an elephant, it's difficult to take in the whole animal in a series of small pieces, but if you start taking in the whole elephant, the issues start to become noticeable.  Like Diablo 3, but to not nearly as much an extreme.
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Vorthon

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9842 on: January 03, 2014, 10:59:48 pm »

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.
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Ultimuh

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9843 on: January 03, 2014, 11:25:49 pm »

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.
I think it may be because the dungeon goes underground, so that there is less effort of making the above-ground parts.
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gman8181

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9844 on: January 03, 2014, 11:34:38 pm »

I do have a sort of nostalgic feeling about Morrowind with its unique locale, the interesting culture, background and the generally more complex systems for things.

Skyrim is a good action / exploration game with RPG elements but it's a far stretch from the RPG roots it came from. Not that it's an entirely bad thing... it's just that there aren't really any games like that any more. I know not everyone likes that type of system but I do and it's kind of a shame it had to disappear.

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.
I think it may be because the dungeon goes underground, so that there is less effort of making the above-ground parts.
My biggest issue with the dungeons was just the repetitiveness of fighting those same few types of undead and the Falmer. They did do a nice job with making a few of them though. I found the main Falmer ruin / underground city to be pretty impressive anyway. Overall though, they weren't anything that impressive and I remember one of the reasons they didn't bring back levitation was because they said it would ruin some of their dungeons, despite the fact I can barely think of any dungeons that would be ruined by having levitation... Although in retrospect, I guess Morrowind's dungeons weren't all very unique either.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9845 on: January 03, 2014, 11:43:41 pm »

Welp, don't know about the rest of it, but here are these in particular:

Open cities
I literally just googled 'skyrim no dragons mod' -combine with 'alternate start' or something for no dragons ever.
--Mind you, some dungeons are made to use shouts. Wod in particular is used for crossing gaps.

There are So. Many. mods that change perks and character building choices. Try overhauls- off the top of my head I know ACE makes equipment and perk choices more important.


This is the point where I say, "No really, go look."
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9846 on: January 03, 2014, 11:47:35 pm »

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.
Yes. Those are two slightly similar corridors. Every single dungeon in every elder scrolls game is built, to some extent out of premade pieces. It's not lazy, it's practical, and no different than Morrowind. Even without different lighting, the only thing those corridors have in common is a downwards slope.

The Companions aren't stealing power from Hircine, they're transmitting the curse by having people drink their werewolf blood. They use their lycanthrope to hunt people, satisfying Hircine, and they got the power from a deal with witches subservient to him. I do admit it's a tad OP in gameplay, as they never involuntarily transform. Involuntary transformation would go a long way to balancing it.

I'd say Skyrim has realistically sized weapons, as far as these things go. The hammers aren't big barrel-headed abominations, they're realistic warhammers.

Dragons are arguably the point of Skyrim, and it's because of the Lore that their return is a big deal. The whole "Dragon War" thing they retconned is kind of stupid, though.

The quests could certainly do with more gameplay elements, though. Mostly they're just "Clear out area X, we don't care how."
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Devastator

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9847 on: January 04, 2014, 01:15:24 am »

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.

It was more slapping a color filter over it to pretend it was different.  It's a lot easier to slap a color filter than to create new textures, for instance, or to properly balance a scene.
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WillowLuman

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9848 on: January 04, 2014, 01:19:33 am »

It was a single, shared ramp element. That was literally the only thing those two scenes shared.
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Bauglir

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9849 on: January 04, 2014, 02:32:37 am »

I hate to be 'that guy' but I hardly see how two dungeons having downward-descending hallways counts as 'lazy'.

It was more slapping a color filter over it to pretend it was different.  It's a lot easier to slap a color filter than to create new textures, for instance, or to properly balance a scene.
Yeah. It is. Morrowind reused art assets, too. That is a necessary element of making a game in 3D in a reasonable timeframe; you can't get hand-painted, unique backgrounds for each area if the camera's allowed to rotate, just as a matter of practicality.

Also, you picked Dwemer architecture, and they're known specifically for their love of consistent, reproducible, sharp-angled design, at least as far as the current lore stands. I'll admit, it's been a damn long time since I played Morrowind, but this actually seems like a repetition that's correct.
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umiman

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9850 on: January 04, 2014, 03:24:46 pm »

Man, I really love Qa'Dojo from the Interesting NPCs mod. Whoever voiced him did such a ridiculous job it's like he's working for Valve.

Not only does he sound exactly like a Khajit, but he has lines for everything! Every single thing. Just off the top of my head, he's had lines for:

1. When you free the elf thief from the spider web in Bleak Falls Barrow and the elf runs away, followed by when you see what happens to him, followed by you opening the door, followed by encountering the dragon wall.
2. When you investigate the burned down house in Morthal, followed by when you get attacked by the charmed husband, followed by approaching Morvath's lair, followed by sneaking up onto the first thrall, followed by killing Morvath.
3. When you investigate the hall of the dead in Markarth, followed by when you encounter that cannibal lady, followed by when you kill all the cannibals.

etc. etc.

Practically every quest, he has lines for. Every location you visit, he has something to say. You could be doing some shopping in Riften, and he'll wonder if they've had any competition with the Khajit traders outside or you could be passing by a farm and he'll wonder if they have leeks. He really makes it feel like you're travelling as a duo, and not just some glorified pack mule.

My favorite was when after I killed the orc bard, he quips about how it's the fate of unusual things to die early.

Graknorke

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9851 on: January 04, 2014, 06:59:15 pm »

It was a single, shared ramp element. That was literally the only thing those two scenes shared.
The pillars too. Besides that though, everything is different.
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BFEL

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9852 on: January 04, 2014, 07:37:30 pm »

Has anyone here had problems installing Skyrim Script Extender. Kind of important, seeing how many mods use it to enable all the wacky stuff they throw in. I tried to download it and SkyUI and it kinda messed up. I...forget how exactly....maybe I just shoulda been paying more attention to what I was doing XD
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Bauglir

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9853 on: January 04, 2014, 07:42:49 pm »

Can you uninstall it? This should walk you through reinstalling it once you do that. Worst case, start over with a vanilla Skyrim install. Basically, you just need to point the installer at the correct directory for your Skyrim installation, but I assume something weird happened with your installation. Having never watched this video, I'm hoping it's a basic, thorough walkthrough.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
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The13thRonin

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Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #9854 on: January 04, 2014, 08:06:17 pm »

The last great Elder Scrolls game before MMO'ification...

Why would they do that?

What kind of moron thought that'd be a good idea?

Coming next to a store near you:

SOLITAIRE THE MMO!
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