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[Putnam]

Skyrim is just a balancing mess and was, obviously, not even attempted to be balanced in anyway because of the growing casual market.

If you care about balance you weren't part of this game's market.

Oblivion was worse. Morrowind was even worse. Daggerfall? Holy shit.

[Neonivek]

Skyrim is just a balancing mess and was, obviously, not even attempted to be balanced in anyway because of the growing casual market.

If you care about balance you weren't part of this game's market.

Oblivion was worse. Morrowind was even worse. Daggerfall? Holy shit.

They all had their issues but usually they are outright exploits not intended in the game.

Skyrim is broken from the getgo.

[WillowLuman]

Skyrim is just a balancing mess and was, obviously, not even attempted to be balanced in anyway because of the growing casual market.

If you care about balance you weren't part of this game's market.

Oblivion was worse. Morrowind was even worse. Daggerfall? Holy shit.

They all had their issues but usually they are outright exploits not intended in the game.

Skyrim is broken from the getgo.

Skyrim is about equally balanced, by which I mean equally broken and equal amount of intent. You're basically saying all other game's exploits are less intentional than Skyrim's. Morrowind magic was incredibly overpowered, Oblivion's destruction magic was incredibly underpowered, and in all 3 of them, enchanting is broken in a unique way. Heavy armor and light armor are essentially equal in both Skyrim and Oblivion, I never found the armor skill made much difference on the gameplay except in Morrowind. As for Daggerfall, if you play straight, you're buggered, if you exploit, you are god.

Skyrim's not attempting to appeal to "casuals." Casual games are things like Angry Birds or Plants vs Zombies: simple, yet often challenging. Casual =/= no effort to play. It comes more from an effort to streamline the elements of TES gameplay that don't need overt complexity, but it went too far in a few painful ways. On the other hand, some things really are improved.

[Neonivek]

Ohh who said anything about enchanting in Skyrim? You don't have to do that at all in Skyrim.

As well the broken aspects isn't just "being overpowered" it is also "being underpowered" as well.

Its casual aspect is the fact that it stems from the natural gameplay and progression of the game. You don't have to hunt down the gamebreakers (both the positive and negative ones), it is built right into your tree so long as you invest. Even to the extent of making purchases entirely and utterly useless in some cases.

It is either that or they just didn't care. So it is between them knowing their market and going for it, and them not really caring about their own game and leaving it in.

[PanH]

Morrowind medium armor was also useless. But honestly, I don't really care about balance in a TES, as long as most combinations of weapons/spells/things are possible. It gets me 2 more hits to kill with this hammer than with a that spell ? Well, yeah ok. I can make an infinite levitation spell ? lol, fun time. There's no really op in TES, but only some things that are up, which is a bit annoying.

[WillowLuman]

No amount of perks will make the game broken, unless you're playing on novice. If you want the best equipment, you'll have to make it yourself, whether through smithing, enchanting, or both. To do that you'll have to hunt down resources and items with the effects you want so you can disenchant them. Additionally, if you exploit alchemy, you can make some very awesome gear, though you'll still have to find some uncommon ingredients in large amounts. I'll admit that buying things becomes pointless after a while, but it's been that way since Morrowind as well.

Don't try to tell me Morrowind and Oblivion were more balanced, because they're not. And "the developers tried harder, the unbalanced parts are just unintentional and don't count" is no excuse, because how can you know? Why is the same thing laziness in Skyrim but unintentional omission form well-meaning developers in the older games?

Game breakedness is equally linked to natural progression in all the games, with unbalanced skills and the option to hunt down overpowered items. Alchemy's OP'd in every TES game it's in, while Enchanting, as a skill, was abysmally useless in Morrowind (Getting stuff enchanted by a professional was one of the only uses for huge amounts of money) but returned with a vengeance Skyrim. Destruction in Oblivion was gutted by the level scaling, but Alteration made Security superfluous.

[Neonivek]

Don't try to tell me Morrowind and Oblivion were more balanced, because they're not.

Dear goodness no. They are all equally broken in that they were all completely broken.

Skyrim is just the first one of them that I saw just up and showed you how to break the game as well as making major skills useless and severely underpowered as well. You didn't have to hunt anything down it was built right into the tree. (Mind you the quickest way to break Oblivion if I remember correctly is to get spell crafting)

They were more transparent of their issues which suggests to me that they wanted more people to access it, which suggested a more casual nature.

---

Mind you, I see what you are saying and you are very likely right. I am not entirely convinced but I'd have to sit on it anyhow.

[Sensei]

Spellcrafting could do neat stuff in Oblivion, but the big game breaker was never using your major skills so you didn't level up. Then you can run around blasting fireballs with a really high skills level and the game basically sends easy enemies at you, because you're bad at sneaking or whatever you chose to be a major skill and not use. Of course, more egregious than players being able to break the game that way is that it was prone to punishing players who focused on leveling up quickly, because the enemies gained power faster than they did.

[Neonivek]

Spellcrafting could do neat stuff in Oblivion, but the big game breaker was never using your major skills so you didn't level up. Then you can run around blasting fireballs with a really high skills level and the game basically sends easy enemies at you, because you're bad at sneaking or whatever you chose to be a major skill and not use. Of course, more egregious than players being able to break the game that way is that it was prone to punishing players who focused on leveling up quickly, because the enemies gained power faster than they did.

It I have to call Skyrim out in terms of Spellcasting (other then Ice magic as a whole) it would be that it doesn't even scale with itself.

[Soadreqm]

Its casual aspect is the fact that it stems from the natural gameplay and progression of the game. You don't have to hunt down the gamebreakers (both the positive and negative ones), it is built right into your tree so long as you invest. Even to the extent of making purchases entirely and utterly useless in some cases.

It is either that or they just didn't care. So it is between them knowing their market and going for it, and them not really caring about their own game and leaving it in.

Neonivek, I don't even understand what you're complaining about. You seem to be saying that while Morrowind had horrible balance by accident, Skyrim has horrible balance on purpose. And this was done to sell the game to some vast market of people who like poorly balanced games. Isn't that a bit paranoid? Bethesda isn't out to get you.

[Neonivek]

But the voices they speak to me... they go "Sheogorath spread the chaos across this land of Bay12games!"

[Moogie]

It I have to call Skyrim out in terms of Spellcasting (other then Ice magic as a whole) it would be that it doesn't even scale with itself.

Neonivek? With a valid point? Holy shit, now I've seen everything!

Btw I highly recommend the "Empowered Magic" mod that fixes this particular problem. Couple it with the "Apocalypse Spell Package" and you suddenly have a balanced, scaling system and over a hundred new and genuinely interesting spells to play with, instead of just Fire... Bigger Fire... Ranged Fire... Explodey Ground Rune of Fire... etc. My favourite combination as a newbie mage is Fracture and (the vanilla spell) Frostbite; as Fracture adds the condition Stun whenever the opponent gets hit with another ice spell, Frostbite suddenly becomes a machine gun, keeping them stunlocked while they freezeburn to death. Finally, a mage can do what anyone with a 1H Sword and Shield combo could do from level 1.

[Ultimuh]

The conspiracy unfolds.
If this have been seen before, please ignore.

[Graknorke]

The conspiracy unfolds.
If this have been seen before, please ignore.

Suddenly I understand everything.

[Ibid Straydrink]

The conspiracy unfolds.
If this have been seen before, please ignore.

Saw title, clicked "x" button faster than I ever had in my life.