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[Vorthon]

I kind of like the intro for Skyrim. Allows me to immerse myself.

[Seriyu]

Luckily with Fallout 3 or Oblivion you could make a save right before leaving the sewers/vault and never have to deal with the tutorial or intro ever again, but you shouldn't need to do that, yea.

In any case I feel it blows the oblivion intro out of the water in almost every way except maybe length, and even then the oblivion intro with the sewers and all isn't much shorter.

I meant more the "introduction before you start" (Which would just be the cart ride in skyrim's case) than the tutorial area, but yea. I agree that the Helgen start is better than the sewers.

Ooooh, I can understand that then. I personally prefer the cart ride(And it does definitely take longer then the speech), but to each their own.

[Zyxl]

Huh, my favorite mods now require the overpriced DLC. Go figure. I stopped playing this to come back to it after it gets more content and the mods progress some more, but I guess I'll wait for the DLC to go back on sale.

Annoyingly long intro in Skyrim

There are alternative start mods that drop you right into the game in under a minute.

Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim did X better

Morrowind was an RPG where the player was truely limited by his character, Oblivion introduced more actionadventure elements, and Skyrim is just a hand-holding action adventure game. They're all 'good' games within their respective archetypes. I'm a Morrowfag myself, but what really gets me is how they couldn't improve anything between games without gutting things.

Best UI:
Morrowind hands down. Most efficient, easy to look at and quickest to navigate, and highly customizable in game. Even with a mediocre monitor resolution I can see/interface with most everything I need to with a single click. Takes advantage of the PC interface, and the character preview that you can select items from is great. 2D scrolling is terrible for inventories. I actually didn't mind the Skyrim interface as much with the UI mod. What I would LOVE to see is the return of a customizable multi-window and grid-inventory interface for TES VI with the interactive character preview AND 3D object model interaction.

Quest interface:
Chase-the-objective-marker is alright if you can't be bothered to read a journal and signposts, but what kills Skyrim for me is the loss of immersion without a proper journal or even the option of playing without handholding. I would be just fine with a magic compass if they kept the real adventurer's journal.

Classes/Stats/Perks:
Perks are stats by function. They provide the same things Stats did, +X% to Y thing. Perks could be as good as stats or even better if they weren't so clunky. Things like pulling a +100% bonus to something out of your ass by saving them up, or something only scales in HUEG 25% blocks, or one particular thing would only ever get one boost and it suddenly doubled it. Creates a real scaling and balance issues, as opposed to a relatively smooth function of variables from 0-100. Mods mostly addressed this, but again it's hard to balance when you only get ONE perk PER level, as opposed to say multiple minor boosts to stats every level. I don't see why we can't have stats AND a wide variety perks, like an expansion of Oblivion's system. Except they couldn't be arsed to fix what was broken by Oblivion's level-scaling, so they replace it entirely with something that is still functionally the same damned thing with the same damned level-scaling issues.

You know these sorts of rants are a dime a dozen and I could bitch about every aspect that was changed between games, but I think the core problems are Bethesda gutting things before tweaking them and level-scaling. Seriously, fuck level-scaling. Morrowind had minimal level-scaling, and I think the heavy level-scaling in the later games reduced the unique content in game progression.

You know what I hate the most though? The change in art direction. The series suddenly started sucking Tolkien's dick and lost all it's charm.

[Rex_Nex]

Quiiick change of pace before we return to the ranting: I can't talk to Legate Rikke to join the Legion. She just won't initiate any dialogue. What's up with this?

I'm sure there's a console command to start the Legion questline... but it's so weird that I'm sitting here a year after the game came out with the latest version of the Unofficial patch installed and one of the main questlines is broken :c

[Tellemurius]

Quiiick change of pace before we return to the ranting: I can't talk to Legate Rikke to join the Legion. She just won't initiate any dialogue. What's up with this?

I'm sure there's a console command to start the Legion questline... but it's so weird that I'm sitting here a year after the game came out with the latest version of the Unofficial patch installed and one of the main questlines is broken :c

have you already got the quest from a guard?

[Rex_Nex]

Yessir.

[WillowLuman]

You know what I hate the most though? The change in art direction. The series suddenly started sucking Tolkien's dick and lost all it's charm.

To be fair, they only really stopped for the duration of Morrowind. You seen the earlier games? Anyway, though, I find Skyrim to have a unique look to it, maybe not as out there as Morrowind's but no more ogres/minotaurs/imps around either.

[Tellemurius]

Yessir.

(quick search in the UESPWIKI)

Code: [Select]

setstage CW01A 1

think its time to remove the Unofficial Patch its obviously not working for you.

[Karnewarrior]

I'd like to see imps as a horde enemy, like flood spores from halo. The kind with a relatively simple AI and weak HP but there's nine or ten of them.

'Course, that might not work with the current combat system. Bleh.

[Tellemurius]

I'd like to see imps as a horde enemy, like flood spores from halo. The kind with a relatively simple AI and weak HP but there's nine or ten of them.

'Course, that might not work with the current combat system. Bleh.

rieklings!

[fqllve]

You know what I hate the most though? The change in art direction. The series suddenly started sucking Tolkien's dick and lost all it's charm.

To be fair, they only really stopped for the duration of Morrowind. You seen the earlier games? Anyway, though, I find Skyrim to have a unique look to it, maybe not as out there as Morrowind's but no more ogres/minotaurs/imps around either.

This, exactly this. Morrowind was a beautiful change of pace but damn if Arena and Daggerfall didn't have boring art direction. I mean, the Khajit were basically just elves with tails in Daggerfall. At least the Argonians were passable though.

I agree about Skyrim too, it isn't so much Standard Fantasy as it is mythologically and geographically influenced. The most important part about Skyrim's design is it's world design, and the impression I get from that is not the same that I get from reading Tolkien at all. But even the creature design isn't the same, and the character design is pretty dark with everyone covered in dirt, which isn't what you take from Tolkien.

I don't see why we can't have stats AND a wide variety perks, like an expansion of Oblivion's system. Except they couldn't be arsed to fix what was broken by Oblivion's level-scaling, so they replace it entirely with something that is still functionally the same damned thing with the same damned level-scaling issues.

Because attribute growth has always been completely broken, it just wasn't readily apparent until level-scaling pushed the minimum requirements of optimization up. I'm not saying that they needed to get rid of attributes, but the had to revamp the system from the ground up to get it passable because as it was there was no semblance of immersion in it.

[dennislp3]

I hate to say it...and I will prolly catch a lot of heat and don't get me wrong, I love Bethesda...

But I also think they are exceptionally lazy...or at least have grown to be lazy.

The games they put out feel more like...bare bones for modders to truly come in and make a living breathing entity worth buying and playing.

I am personally ok with this though because the modding community is so huge behind Bethesda that they can rely on the community to swoop in and make community patches and content mods to fill out the games they make.

[Tellemurius]

I hate to say it...and I will prolly catch a lot of heat and don't get me wrong, I love Bethesda...

But I also think they are exceptionally lazy...or at least have grown to be lazy.

The games they put out feel more like...bare bones for modders to truly come in and make a living breathing entity worth buying and playing.

I am personally ok with this though because the modding community is so huge behind Bethesda that they can rely on the community to swoop in and make community patches and content mods to fill out the games they make.

you still cant beat the game designs though, very few mods got that high up to the top (Morrowind: Tamriel Rebuilt and Oblivion: Nehrim). Im content to what the main quests are, the mods are just extra stuff for me to do.

[SalmonGod]

If they're going to keep doing things that way, they need to take further steps to embrace it.  Develop some official infrastructure for the modding community, like an official Bethesda tool that does something like what the Nexus Mod Manager or Steam Workshop tries to do, but tied directly into the game.  And put more work into the engine between games.  The engine is the main selling point for any game that depends on mods.  Id operated this way for many years, and they were so successful at it because their game engines were top notch and the improvements between each were major and obvious.

[fqllve]

I hate to say it...and I will prolly catch a lot of heat and don't get me wrong, I love Bethesda...

But I also think they are exceptionally lazy...or at least have grown to be lazy.

Nah, I don't think you're going to catch any flak for that. I like Skyrim a lot, but it's pretty clear that Bethsoft is starting to say "Leave it to the modders." You don't really have to look further than the UI. People say it's designed for consoles, but I played Skyrim on console first and let me tell you it is not an acceptable UI for any platform. It's clunky on console and it's basically impossible to use on PC. They spent way too much money on it and didn't bother to worry about usability. It's broken to the point where even mods can't make it a good UI, just ok.

If they're going to keep doing things that way, they need to take further steps to embrace it.  Develop some official infrastructure for the modding community, like an official Bethesda tool that does something like what the Nexus Mod Manager or Steam Workshop tries to do, but tied directly into the game.  And put more work into the engine between games.  The engine is the main selling point for any game that depends on mods.  Id operated this way for many years, and they were so successful at it because their game engines were top notch and the improvements between each were major and obvious.

I don't think the engine is really the main selling point of TES games, though. Rather it's the world and how it can trick you into actually believing it exists outside of you. They need to put more work into their engine, that's for sure, but I don't think that's where their success is gonna come from.