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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1624657 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3630 on: December 13, 2011, 11:24:25 pm »

I dont know. The previous titles, like Oblivion and Morrowind, having story essential NPC killable, made the game feel unduly fragile.


Now, I do wish, there was a story mission, where I could take out the crippled Thieves guild.
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On a semi related note, the Theives Guild story line, was pretty meh. I wish Saphire would tell me her fucking name. Though powers you get from being a Nightingale are pretty neat.
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buckets

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3631 on: December 13, 2011, 11:31:39 pm »

I finally found a reason to join the massive hatred of the whole immortal essential character thing: the Mafia Thieves' Guild. After two missions, I already hate them. The people fighting them or indebted to them are sympathetic, the members are asshats, and they don't do any actual thieving. I joined for the fences
That's the main thing I hated about the thieves guild, it's not realy thieves guildy. Oblivion's one was way better.

I mean, where's all the thieving?
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Ghills

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3632 on: December 13, 2011, 11:37:12 pm »

The guildmembers taking your hard-earned loot!  It's a Ponzi scheme, only full of murder and blooodshed instead of accountants. :)
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Neyvn

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3633 on: December 13, 2011, 11:38:38 pm »

Is this right, I ain't even sneaking up behind people to pickpocket them now. I just went up to all the Whiterun Guards and took their Arrows from them with no problems, even took their gold and the occasional Amulet. FROM IN FRONT OF THEM! THEY KNEW I WAS THERE!!!
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Rakonas

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3634 on: December 14, 2011, 12:17:16 am »

There really should be some triggers that remove obviously useless essential tags.
For instance, there's nothing more grating then the inability to take out an imperial camp as a stormcloak because there's always that one guy.
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3635 on: December 14, 2011, 12:31:42 am »

I wanted to kill Ulfric Stormcloak for being a jerk. Too bad, he seemed to be more intangible than a ghost.

I rage-loaded back to a save where I didn't join the pointless war. It was pointless, anyway.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3636 on: December 14, 2011, 02:36:52 am »

I dont know. The previous titles, like Oblivion and Morrowind, having story essential NPC killable, made the game feel unduly fragile.
Oblivion and Morrowind - Kill an important NPC and the game tells you you've broken the quest, load an old savegame or live without that quest.

Skyrim - Attack an Essential NPC, now you have a bounty and an NPC that will never stop attacking you, reload your game or be barred from that area forever.

I think I prefer the former.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3637 on: December 14, 2011, 02:41:49 am »

Woah, calm down man, it's just a game.

But, here, let me quote from the "How did you last die" thread:
Skyrim.


I committed suicide by jumping from a cliff after finding out that I can't murder half of those obnoxious pricks in the so-called Thieves' Guild.

Welcome to the magical world of modding!

The problem here being that I'm running it on 360. Which carries a number of somewhat lesser concerns as well. By the by, there wasn't much actual rage there, more along the lines of amused frustration.

Which was compounded by the next mission on the manor island, where I quickly got tired of how easy it was to stealth it entirely with only around 40 Sneak and decided to start picking the guards off one by one, at which point I discovered that taking two levels of mostly smithing and lockpicking isn't the best idea, so I actually had quite a bit of fun cutting a throat, shout-dashing out into the lake, hiding on an island, and repeating the whole process. I recall one memorable part where I encountered something that has already been mocked elsewhere: I stealth-executed a guard who had been chopping wood, and the one carrying wood from the pile to the storage pile came rushing over. He stood over the dead body, staring straight at me, and not seeing me. He began to walk away, and I twitched toward him. He instantly turned back around, stared at me for a few more seconds, and then continued to walk away.


Maybe next character I'll play a mage class that relies entirely on Illusion, Alteration, and Conjuration, and see how far I get before the game forces me to act OOC with stabby things to get me back on the tracks.

But yes, it is rather frustrating how the Thieves' Guild is anything but. My desire to kill them all stemmed from three things: RP value, genuine moral outrage at their lack of standards, and the fact that they're sending me on incredibly dull and non-stealy missions. From what I've heard, their questline only gets worse, falling back on the old Skyrim standard of "Here's a dungeon full of Nord Zombies. Go kill 'em all and show us what you find in the conveniently located chest and/or altar in the boss room.".

I dont know. The previous titles, like Oblivion and Morrowind, having story essential NPC killable, made the game feel unduly fragile.
Oblivion and Morrowind - Kill an important NPC and the game tells you you've broken the quest, load an old savegame or live without that quest.

Skyrim - Attack an Essential NPC, now you have a bounty and an NPC that will never stop attacking you, reload your game or be barred from that area forever.

I think I prefer the former.

Exactly. If the player screws up and kills a central character, that's their fault for not paying attention. Heck, it isn't even as if they need to be vulnerable to other NPCs, if the devs really want to prevent a random occurance from screwing the main quest.
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3638 on: December 14, 2011, 02:44:04 am »

Oblivion had an absurd amount of essential NPCs too. So I don't understand how that gets thrown in with Morrowinds handling when it simply didn't do things that way. The only thing close to that in oblivion I can remember was at the very end just so if someone died who was previously invincible the whole time till now you'd be forced to reload.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3639 on: December 14, 2011, 02:47:56 am »

In Oblivion they mostly had actual important people being essential, and it at least told you if you couldn't kill an NPC, rather than leaving it until you've already knocked them down. And there were a lot less of them than Skyrim.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3640 on: December 14, 2011, 02:49:03 am »

Oblivion had an absurd amount of essential NPCs too. So I don't understand how that gets thrown in with Morrowinds handling when it simply didn't do things that way. The only thing close to that in oblivion I can remember was at the very end just so if someone died who was previously invincible the whole time till now you'd be forced to reload.

This may just be the nostalgia filter talking, but I honestly don't recall there being the sheer number of them that there are in Skyrim. It may also be due to the fact that there are a much larger number of quests which are considered important enough for the devs to make the relevant characters immortal. Or simply that there are so many more characters in Skyrim that I actually want to kill, for various reasons. In Oblivion, they were all so deep in the uncanny valley that nothing they did annoyed me, and I didn't even view them as people (or mer), so I had no particular reason to kill anyone other than ones that had to die, and random mooks.

Derp 3am spelling edit.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 02:55:54 am by Flying Dice »
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Gunner-Chan

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3641 on: December 14, 2011, 02:51:34 am »

I will say though, I actually have no idea which game has more than the other. But it did crop up enough that I'd say to me at least, it feels similar when it happens. No better or worse to me honestly. But again, it might be a side effect of skyrim for all intents and purposes having actual NPCs in comparison which will DEFINITELY make them stand out more.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3642 on: December 14, 2011, 02:53:25 am »

Actually I was wrong, it seems to be about equal, Oblivion has slightly more if you count NPCs added by expansions.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3643 on: December 14, 2011, 02:58:06 am »

But again, compare between the two games how many immortals you tried to kill because they pissed you off, and how many you tried to kill because 'lol I wonder what'll happen if I power-attack this guy with a warhammer'. In the first, it is immersion-breaking because you actually want them to die, in the second it isn't, because you're just bored and tooling around trying to break stuff.
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lavenders2

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3644 on: December 14, 2011, 02:59:10 am »

I wanted to kill Ulfric Stormcloak for being a jerk. Too bad, he seemed to be more intangible than a ghost.

I rage-loaded back to a save where I didn't join the pointless war. It was pointless, anyway.
It wasn't that pointless.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But anyway, on the subject on invincible NPC characters, I hate it. Sometimes I just want to go kill everything in the city, but every time I do some character that can't be killed joins in and I can't remove my bounty by horribly murdering everybody. The one thing that I thought was cool in the game was that you could remove bounty by killing all witnesses, but that feature is half broken if you can't KILL the witness. At least make it so that if every character that can't be killed is stunned and you run away from them your bounty is removed. Also make it that kids aren't smart enough to remember the event and that if you sneak long enough they will forget about you (Yeah, you could argue that it takes away from the immersion because it is unrealistic, but in a game where there are dragons flying around breathing fire shouting at you and with you using a magical sword and kids that are more powerful than dragons, shouts and your weapons combined, I think that doesn't really matter).
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