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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1625263 times)

GaxkangtheUnbound

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3255 on: December 04, 2011, 04:40:27 pm »

Here's some great ebony sites, as per the wiki:
Spoiler: Locations (click to show/hide)
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shadenight123

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3256 on: December 04, 2011, 04:49:55 pm »

trying out the tytanis mod.
and yeah, even without the Creation kit there does seem to be quite a new load of contents.
...
if they don't release it soon i'm suspecting somebody of the modders community will crack open the game to create it's own CK tool.
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“There, I did something. I clapped. I like clapping,” he said. -The Investigator And The Case Of The Missing Brain.

Warmist

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3257 on: December 04, 2011, 05:28:14 pm »

Only thing that i can add to this discussions (read few pages back) is that Skyrim will have an awesome modability (if all the things that happen in quests are not "hardcoded") and i miss morrowinds "Dracandros Voice" mod :< . It would be so awesome to control all the organizations that you "control" by being arch-mage, companion head and so on.

Buttery_Mess

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3258 on: December 04, 2011, 07:02:24 pm »

I've maxed out Enchanting and Smithing and there's no way you can class those as non-combat skills. I'm high up in alchemy too, a must to get the most out of Enchanting and Smithing. Just because those skills aren't purely applicable to dishing out damage doesn't mean that they aren't almost essential to being a total badass. I've only really noticed the draugr getting harder as the game goes on, which makes sense in the context of the game's events. No. The Skyrim gameplay is good. The levelling is subtle enough and believable.
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nenjin

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3259 on: December 04, 2011, 07:47:34 pm »

Until Level 40-ish. Then the 4th wall is broken. And maxing anything like the Light Armor/Weapon Perks quickly will break the game, as it will double your damage output or armor value far ahead of where the game thinks you're at.

I mean really. You can make a 4million damage bow without hacking the game. Skyrim plays well if you restrict yourself (although people with no combat focus will suffer a lot.) Long-term it breaks down like every other Bethesda game, where you power up too quickly playing as you feel like you "normally" would, trivialize half of content either because you have too much money or you're too high level, and the "end-game" becomes a quest of maxing out for maxing out's sake. Skyrim delivers better unique loot than Oblivion did, much earlier. So there's that. But it accomplishes that by gimping the fuck out of the variety and utility of magic items the player can create. So there it goes.

It's a Beth game. The best looking, most visually and aurally immersive, expansive game they've made. But it's a Beth game, through and through. I feel much about it how I felt about Oblivion by the time I stopped playing, except that I enjoyed more of Skyrim along the way. In the end Skyrim feels like it gives you even less end game punch than Oblivion, due to the mechanics and game systems, despite dragons and shouts and EPIC MOUNTAIN VISTAAAAAASSSSS. And that disappointed me a lot.

What keeps it playable is the fact you get a lot of choices but only get to make one very infrequently, your perks. It's the lack of metrics that makes Skyrim feel natural because there's none of those things working against level scaling. You're not getting stronger by beating stuff up, so you don't end up horrifically strong just running around. Instead, you're acquiring perks, and the non-combat perks in many ways increase difficulty while combat perks drastically reduce it. And then gear, smithing and enchanting drag difficulty out into the street and shoot it in the face.

In some ways a real leveling and stats system would have worked better than me as a player saying "Ok, I'm level 30. Is it time to put another point into 1-handed damage?" But they didn't even try. Some may like the flexibility. To me it just makes the things you do have to pay attention to, perks and gear, seem less interesting because they can't hold up to that level of scrutiny.

If Bethesda games would actually stop and look at the challenge level of the thing you're fighting before deciding to hand out skill ups, experience, whatever....their games could be balanced so much better to last. But that's not how they roll. They rely on the player level to dictate, well, pretty much everything, but there's never any feed back after that point. A swing with a sword only cares about how much you know about swords already, not about what that sword is cutting into. When the difference is wolves vs. dragon princes, it feels like it should matter. Put another way, if the game actually cared about the content you're encountering in terms of its difficulty, you could do 5 bandit caves in a row without seeing a skill up, then get skill ups when you go to the top of a mountain and fight a dragon. That's how I feel the game should be playing out. Instead, I manage to get 2 levels between 2 bandit caves and feel like I'm on the "Fun clock" where the more I do, the less interesting and meaningful the game gets.

The system could be balanced to support one character seeing most of the world and do it all in one lifespan in a way where 1/2 of it becomes a meaningless slog. I feel like Bethesda purposefully balances things in the OTHER direction, to force people into replayability. They balance it so you can't concievably do everything without getting bored so you're tempted to restart again to preserve the challenge. When all anyone really wants to get the most time out of each character that they can. I'd happily play my first Skyrim character through the whole game, if it could actually stay balanced and challenging.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 08:49:41 pm by nenjin »
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Ghills

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3260 on: December 04, 2011, 11:03:32 pm »

I would be a lot happier if Bethesda had just given up on the idea of scaling at all and just scattered various CR encounters near each other and signaled to the player which ones were the right CR.  Or, scaling on the relevant skill would be an improvement too.
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lordcooper

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3261 on: December 04, 2011, 11:30:33 pm »

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ductape

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3262 on: December 04, 2011, 11:41:49 pm »

I decided to level enchanting WHILE leveling my combat skills, so I went and got Azura's Star, went with the BLACK version. I enchanted a Falmer bow with Soul Trap and went on out and went about my business as usual, making sure that I have no empty soul gems in my pocket, just the star. I enchanted it with the maximum I duration I could, 6 seconds. Less charges but that wont matter...

I kill my enemies, one at a time. After each kill (yes, even when there are multiple foes) I TAB and use the soul just trapped in the star to recharge the bow. Rinse and repeat. I also level archery at the same time, hopefully to balance out the leveling issues. I know I am probably kidding myself but this is more fun for me than making a bunch of gloves and selling them.

I dont want to make the game too easy or try to break it because I can, but I have it set to expert difficulty (there is one harder setting) and as an archery focused character, I still have challenges. There are times when it takes 10 arrows to kill a baddie, and by then they are on my ass. If there are more than one, I better have a good plan or lots of potions if I get in a bad spot.

I will probably try to avoid smithing for a while and getting to 'game breaky" with the enchant, smith, alchemy trio.
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Rakonas

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3263 on: December 05, 2011, 12:02:28 am »

Wait, you don't use up the gem when you recharge a weapon, it just becomes empty? Derp, nevermind, Azura's Star.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 12:04:57 am by Rakonas »
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Peewee

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3264 on: December 05, 2011, 12:03:43 am »

Wait, you don't use up the gem when you recharge a weapon, it just becomes empty?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

irbis

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3265 on: December 05, 2011, 04:30:09 am »

so far ive made and played to level +/- 30 six characters. suprising enough i enjoy the low levels the most. mining ore near Riverside, choping wood, clearing up the mine nearby, the Barrow above the city. shame on me but i havent actualy hit even the ebony armor. never. or used the master spells. i just get bored before that point. now i am going with Dual Wielding ork heh.
but the game keeps pulling me back. funny enough it is the skyrim world that pulls me. i mean, i am an old gamer. ive played games made out of pixels bigger then a house. i never really cared for graphics. but the skyrim eviroment... is just mindblowing. seriously, i have a special folder for Skyrim screenshots. I cant remember when i had stoped playing a game just to stand still and enjoy the views.
I mean, just look at that:

and i have a huge collection of screenshots like this.
Maybe this is the reason why ppl are complaining so much. because the game literaly trys to suck you in. it seems so real and all. and you want to be sucked inside. but all the time when you forgets you are actualy playing a game some nasty game mechanic flaw rise up and slaps you in the face ruining your expirience.
its not that i dont like the game. i love it. the problem is... i would like to love it even more, and its not letting me.
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3266 on: December 05, 2011, 09:16:05 am »

For me the fun of the game is creating a game breaking character. Skyrim makes it fun along the way. Fridge logic has kicked in one or two times... like, the fact that I can kill dragons makes me wonder why dragons are such a threat, since they appear to be weaker than one person. Okay, I'm a dragonslayer, fair enough. But who exactly is giving birth to all these bandits and foresworn? Those are some of the few complaints. Overall, the world makes a lot more sense than Oblivion, or even Morrowind, to an extent.

Probably the main fridge logic question I have to ask is; why doesn't everyone (anyone?) else run out and level up and gain phenomenal power? It's easy enough to do. The answer is that they're normal people, and can't be bothered. Why can my character be bothered? The answer is that he's been chosen by the gods to be a champion of righteousness. All the Elder Scrolls games feature some sort of fridge logic handwave to this problem; the Elder Scrolls say that this guy is special. It especially made sense in Morrowind; the 'proof' that the PC was the Nerevarine was basically that he ran around a lot and got shit done. As long as there's an explanation of how the PC can become so overpowered, the verisimilitude remains intact and I can enjoy the game. I don't mind if other people don't see it this way.

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But .... It's so small!
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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3267 on: December 05, 2011, 09:48:01 am »

Yes they answer why Dragons are so dangerous even if a squad of soldiers and hunters can take one down.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Toady Two

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3268 on: December 05, 2011, 09:52:47 am »

So they are like cliff racers mixed with phoenixes. Ouch.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #3269 on: December 05, 2011, 09:55:51 am »

 Cliff Racers are even more dangerous though, as they supposedly killed off any dragons that tried to stay in Morrowind through sheer numbers.
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