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[LoSboccacc]

"A strategy isn't complete when there isn't more to add, but when there isn't anything left to take away" is a good model for what we should strive for.

we already have Go for that 
let strategy emerge from complexity!

[fqllve]

Yeah, I actually prefer restricting paralysis to poisons. From a lore point of view it doesn't make much sense that in a world where mages can protect ships from storms they can't paralyze opponents, but from a gameplay standpoint paralysis is, like you said, immensely powerful. Paralyzing a giant frostbite spider for five seconds can be as useful as some of the racial abilities (like Histkin) in terms of survival. Keeping it for poisons only keeps it feeling as powerful as it really is.

However, restricting the Weakness to spells to poisons was a much worse decision in my mind. There just really isn't an effective method of poison deliver for a pure mage, who is gonna be the one most reliant on those type of effects. Spell-stacking is extraordinarily overpowered, so reimplementation would require some thought about balancing. Like perhaps making Weakness to spells Alteration to prevent someone from becoming a god of pure destruction so easily.

[Rose]

Well, in riften, at least, I did a bunch of missions for townsfolk before they'd let me buy it.

if i might ask - which quests you exactly finished?
i am trying to get that house too but runned out of quests for Riften and i still can buy it =(

There's the skooma quest, the court mage quest, and getting ice teeth for some shopkeeper that I remember, plus dragons.

[LoSboccacc]

the problem with spell stacking was that the check for reapplying the same effect was horribly broken leading to multiplying effect combos.

just making the effects 'bring weakness to x up to x%' instead of stacking and multiplying them would be enough to have it stackable, but not god powered.

[Glowcat]

some modded in the multiplier 3.0 which would quite be better, still, until someone mods in the paralysis spells and the friggin hellstorms i'm not keen on grabbing mods for the basic magic thing.

Paralysis was always a weird ability. Even at just a second the ability to instantly interrupt whatever your opponent was doing and turn them to a ragdoll is immensely powerful, and it's a heavily binary state. Either your resistance makes it not work at all or you are on the ground. It's a cool skill to use and annoying to face(Oh fuck that one bandit cave in Solstheim containing five guys with glass daggers of paralysis), but it's up-front bash your teeth in functionality isn't diverse beyond fucking with things.

 It's a problem to work with, like many other abilities that were dropped. Real discussion needs to be had on how to implement them without including the complex clunky mass of previous games. The intent should be on having the skill fill a specific use, with some situations not being ideal for it and keeping the rules for it simple. "A strategy isn't complete when there isn't more to add, but when there isn't anything left to take away" is a good model for what we should strive for.

Are you guys talking about enchantments? Because there's both paralysis poison and an Alteration paralysis spell.

EDIT: Just learned that Paralyze doesn't trigger aggro from guards. Time for mischief!
EDIT2: Yet Paralyzing a chicken made them attack. I no understand, Skyrim!

[Duke 2.0]

 Yeah, the whole mage poison issue does seem like something that would be looked at. Possibly using telekinesis to apply poison at a distance? Just increasing the interactions between different mechanics and skillsets would do wonders for increasing the versatility of them.

[Microcline]

"A strategy isn't complete when there isn't more to add, but when there isn't anything left to take away" is a good model for what we should strive for.

I find it ironic to encounter this oft-misinterpreted Saint-Exupéry quote on the Bay 12 forums, of all places.  It only applies when taking things away does not impair functionality.  While some games benefit from minimalism, other games thrive due to their ambitious scope.  I would put Dwarf Fortress and TES in the latter category.  TES has never been renowned for its game balance, excellent combat, boss fights, or "cinematic-ism".  It's been remembered for its innovative, unique, and powerful spells, versatile character creation, and well-written world and lore.  When strengths are "streamlined" to embrace more conventional design, the game goes from flawed masterpiece to generic mediocrity.

[fqllve]

the problem with spell stacking was that the check for reapplying the same effect was horribly broken leading to multiplying effect combos.

just making the effects 'bring weakness to x up to x%' instead of stacking and multiplying them would be enough to have it stackable, but not god powered.

Even then, if we're assuming it isn't capped at 100%, then you could be doing 300% bonus damage by combining weakness to element and weakness to magic all while only specializing in the destruction school. Capping at 100% and moving the weakness to to another school would require more character planning and at least put magic on the same footing as combat where you have to focus on multiple skills to become that powerful.

Yeah, the whole mage poison issue does seem like something that would be looked at. Possibly using telekinesis to apply poison at a distance? Just increasing the interactions between different mechanics and skillsets would do wonders for increasing the versatility of them.

That's actually a really great idea.

[forsaken1111]

So archery seems like an entertaining way of playing, if anyone has tried doing that exclusively.

Not exclusively but I am 95% archery. There are times when it just doesn't make sense. I can tell you that if I remain stealthy I can one or two shot nearly everything in the dungeons I'm raiding now, and the leveled boss type enemies or minimosses I can usually pick away at by shooting twice and then fading into the shadows (or downing a quick invisibility potion in emergencies).

[Duke 2.0]

It's been remembered for its innovative, unique, and powerful spells, versatile character creation, and well-written world and lore.

And being clunky as all hell, including a dozen pointless features that don't work and no real tutorial in the gameplay for explaining the features.

There is always room to grow in those fields. I can see complaints on just how far they took it and where they brought the axe down, but there is never a reason not to tighten up the flaws in a game. Even introducing a bunch of other different flaws.

_{(I will admit to being a wishy-washy asshole in this discussion though)}

[Neonivek]

Some skills in the game take SOOO long to level up that I swear they could have only planned for you to have been trained.

Speach craft for example.

I depopulate the gold from an entire town selling and buying (Goodness I love "The Steed") and my speachcraft was growing slower and slower 30 points from everything else.

Now however I train it 5 times every level. MIND you I am only doing this because I heard a Rumor that "Investing" does more then just give a shop more money to throw around.

[Criptfeind]

Mount and Blade, or other games where death is one poorly placed block away

I got to say, combat seems much more deadly (for the player at least. Mooks it seems about the same for) then it was in Mount and Blade.

And I prefer a system where the player has more input than raw numbers into an outcome.  A Skyrim style melee system is more or less about trading blows.  Maximizing the utility of blocking and shield bashes is a factor, as well as the rare occasion of sidestepping a blow, but they're of minimal consequence.  You're still basically taking turns hitting each other in a raw numerical contest of dps + hp (with your hp limited only by the number of potions you bother to carry for time-stop panic guzzling), but with fancy animations to help you feel like there's more going on.

Some times. When I am stronger then them.

When I fight something stronger then me it turns into a fun battle of dodging and counter hitting.

Also fighting mages can be fun. I had a battle with like five mages that was quite good. It was a running battle though most of the level with jumping, dodging, hitting, healing and fighting summoned monsters.

It ended with me springing a trap which covered some of them in rocks then setting a oil pool on fire to keep them off me as I took the survivers one by one.

[fqllve]

Yeah, the game can get quite tactical. I'm constantly having to use the environment to get the advantage over my opponents. Chokepoints, height, obstacles. It's important to fight in such a way that you are never head on with more than one enemy at a time.

The combat mechanics are simple, but the much more manageable levels of HP bloat mean fighting can get intense at times.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

I managed to completely miss the environmental damage things. Like the many oil spills, with the convenient lanterns hanging above them.

Also

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Roughly how useful is the power word you get from, I think it's Ivarstead or something, Barrow, because it seems kind of meh from the description

[Mephisto]

Some skills in the game take SOOO long to level up that I swear they could have only planned for you to have been trained.

Speach craft for example.

I depopulate the gold from an entire town selling and buying (Goodness I love "The Steed") and my speachcraft was growing slower and slower 30 points from everything else.

Now however I train it 5 times every level. MIND you I am only doing this because I heard a Rumor that "Investing" does more then just give a shop more money to throw around.

They're probably referring to the Speech perks. One supposedly allows you to fence stolen goods to shops you've invested in. I say supposedly because I've read that there's a bug that renders the perk unnecessary. I can't be bothered raising the skill enough and dumping enough perks into it to find out.