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[Leatra]

See? Did Bethesda brainwashed you or something? What's up with this hostility for people who don't like this game? I just said I don't like this game and people started thinking I whine or "bitch" about the game. Talking like that makes you look like a fanboy or someone who just gives attention to overhyped games. I just stated my opinion like everyone else. I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of things about this game to know I won't like it even if I try it. I literally watched the first 2 hours of someone playing it. I'll try it at my friend's soon and I know I'll get what I expect. This game might become the GOTY but I'd give it a 7/10.

About the graphics. They promised good graphics. I didn't care much. Textures (it's literally low-res) sucked. I didn't care much again. The problem is they PROMISED good graphics. A promise is a promise. This is what I meant with "I could show you some screenshots but I don't really care much about graphics because I value gameplay rather than graphics" I don't fucking bitch at the graphics. I bitch at the fucking devs trying to make us buy their game. Did you guys forget the lies they said when Oblivion was in development?

Horrible textures I'm talking about: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1261430-pc-textures/ Thread is locked because of "way over post limit" or something.

Just like Morrowind, where you are forced to contract Corpus as part of the main quest.

You know what I mean, plot is already written for you. You can understand my point if you take a look at this: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1274259-get-your-plot-off-of-my-character-sheet/

Dual wielding of weapons and magic is great though. I'll give you that. Level scaling isn't as bad as Oblivion but still needs improvement.

I'm going stop debating here because as everybody knows, debating Skyrim never ends. I don't like Skyrim, you like Skyrim. So what? Let's be friends! There isn't a thoughtcrime police enforcing laws against people who thinks bad about Big Skyrim. You can say and think whatever you want but don't insult my intelligence.

[Sirian]

PLEASE tell me I can find a Stormcloak guy somewhere and start the main quest in a different way >.>

This is not the main quest, it sounds more like the civil war questline. And you can choose the stormcloaks, yes, i have both the "Join the imperials" and "Join the Stormcloaks" objectives right now. I think the stormcloaks one was given to me by a stormcloak prisonner escorted by guards, that i met on the road between Riverwood and Whiterun.

For instance, right now i can craft Ebony stuff, but i don't want to ! I'm like "already there ?? but i have barely used my new orcish armor, and i barely used my plate armor before that !".

Well, the thing is you can continually improve your low level armor (fine, exquisite, flawless, epic, legendary) several times and how far it can go scales to your skill. So while you can craft ebony now, chances are you can improve your orcish stuff to a level 1.5x to 2x higher than unmodified ebony. So really, you shouldn't even bother making your ebony stuff until you're nearly maxed out improving your orcish. Because you'll need a pretty high blacksmith skill to make epic ebony armor, and your epic orcish armor is what you'll wear to get there.

Actually i already have Legendary weapons/armor. My level in Blacksmithing is around 70 i think ? or maybe 80, whatever it takes to unlock the ebony perk. And i have a full set of armor enchanted with a smithing skill buff (all 4 pieces using grand souls, so they give around +18% smithing each). I'm very cautious not to use alchemy yet, as i know that it would allow me to make completely broken stuff. But still, it's like i must set the rules myself on what is "allowed" and what is not, to keep a good game experience. This shoudn't happen. It's like they integrated cheating in the game mechanics.

[nenjin]

It's like they integrated cheating in the game mechanics.

Ah, yeah, ok. You're at the top of the mountain then, sorry. Really, Bethesda can't make a system without having it jump the shark somewhere. In Oblivion it was tying leveling to basic activities like walking and jumping. In Skyrim, it's tying levels to the three things to do besides explore and fight. (Crafting, enchanting and alchemy.) The three things that are dirt simple to amass tons of materials for and max them out very quickly. One of these days, they're going to get it right without modder's help......

See?

People aren't begrudging you your right to discuss the game you haven't personally played. It's your tone.

And it's usually not a good idea to parachute into a massive thread of a new game and start saying you don't like it, and flipping out and swearing and the like.

About the graphics. They promised good graphics. I didn't care much. Textures (it's literally low-res) sucked. I didn't care much again. The problem is they PROMISED good graphics. A promise is a promise. This is what I meant with "I could show you some screenshots but I don't really care much about graphics because I value gameplay rather than graphics" I don't fucking bitch at the graphics. I bitch at the fucking devs trying to make us buy their game. Did you guys forget the lies they said when Oblivion was in development?

Yeah, seriously. You should probably just step away from the keyboard.

[Leatra]

See?

People aren't begrudging you your right to discuss the game you haven't personally played. It's your tone.

No, it's your tone. Check what you just wrote. I'm just stating my opinion about the game. Don't try to make it personal. I used swear words to highlight my point.

Yeah, seriously. You should probably just step away from the keyboard.

We discussed this game for months before it came out. Nobody played the game but we stated our opinions. What's wrong with that? There is already a locked Skyrim thread we don't need another one.

And what is wrong with my tone? I told what I think about Skyrim and I got this reply

Don't mind me, I'm just going to drop into the thread, throw a thinly veiled insult at the game being discussed, and leave.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I would shut up after my first post if people wouldn't insult me. I always feel the need to reply to an insult. "I don't like Skyrim, you like Skyrim. So what? Let's be friends!" so let's just drop it.

[Bdthemag]

How about we just stop pointing fingers and just leave it at that?

Anyways, regarding the DB questline.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The quest line was pretty fun, but I thought the ending was a bit lackluster. I was expecting some kind of choice to follow the orders of the Nightmother, or just do whatever you want and I was dissapointed you were kind of railroaded into following the Night Mother.

[nenjin]

I think I'm going to do what you said initially, and just not mind you.

[Leatra]

I think I'm going to do what you said initially, and just not mind you.

Take it to the PM if you have personal insults. I didn't say anything about people who liked the game.

Sorry for killing the thread for a minute. We don't need another Morrowind VS Skyrim thread.

[Cthulhu]

I'm beginning to notice a pattern among all these books.  Every single story in the Elder Scrolls series ends in an obvious, sometimes absurd, twist ending.  I'm not going to put them in spoilers, they're just two page books.

The Three Thieves ends with Galsiah and Imalyn somehow knowing where Lledos lives and killing him using the techniques he taught them.

Immortal(?) ends with the priest being a vampire.  Duh.

It goes on and on.

[Bdthemag]

And the Lusty Argonian Maid ends with....wait no forget it.

[Sirian]

In Skyrim, it's tying levels to the three things to do besides explore and fight. (Crafting, enchanting and alchemy.) The three things that are dirt simple to amass tons of materials for and max them out very quickly. One of these days, they're going to get it right without modder's help......

It's not just the 3 crafting skills, there is also the pickpocketing skill, the speech skill, the lockpicking skill, and probably a couple of magic schools too (although i haven't touched magic enough to be able to tell which ones). In fact, since the 3 crafting skills allow you to increase your combat effectiveness, they at least don't make your character unplayable.

Again, it's not as bad as in oblivion, where you could probably choose to never level up and still complete the main quest, because everything else would be scaled at lvl 1. But it's not far behind. It's a dillemma born from their decision to allow free roaming : in a more traditional rpg, the difficulty would increase as you progress down the main plot and into increasingly higher level areas. To gain more relative power over your opponents, you would do more side quests/activities. Here, doing a side activity will increase your level, and the world level, and the world content. You can probably get top level gear without ever leaving the starting town.

Maybe instead of giving you level-ups for your skills, they should give you one level up for each area "cleared", as long as the area's level is not too low compared to your own, and screw level scaling content completely. This way you can keep a feeling of progression, you can still challenge your skills with higher level content, and you can still train all your non-combat skills as much as you want, while knowing that you'll need to gain levels to get the associated perks. Instead of unlocking higher level gear as you level up, and end up with Glass weapons in Riverwood, make high level gear/materials only available in some cities/areas, and if the player gets his hands on a weapon too "high level" for him, make it deal only a portion of the damage, scaling with his associated skill level, so that it's still a better than iron crap, but not as good as it would be in the hands of a master.

[Duke 2.0]

 TES has a weird dynamic between the sloppy design of older western RPGs and the growing pains of modernizing the series for more current concepts of game design. There will always be whining about various mechanics that were carried over from previous games while whining about mechanics dropped because they were sloppy and terrible to work with.

 And I can't honestly say that fans would react positively to removing some of the classic systems that were in place.

[nenjin]

The dungeons tend to follow "twist" pattern too. Simple bandit hideout? Nope! Secret spider lair, vampire coven, ancient nord catacombs, dragon word monument, just waiting around the corner.

I also have a hard time with the fact all the nord tombs are chalked full of modern items. They're like, how old again? From before the founding of the Empire? Then why are the Draugr carrying around suits of Imperial Armor?

there is also the pickpocketing skill, the speech skill, the lockpicking skill, and probably a couple of magic schools too (although i haven't touched magic enough to be able to tell which ones).

Speeching, lock picking and PP aren't as easy or as tempting to break. Sure, you can PP every person in town or unlock every door, or spam candlelight for 20 minutes.....but enchanting, alchemy and blacksmithing encourage you to break the system just to get a semblance of what you want. Potions are shit without alchemy perks, forging good equipment requires you to be higher in blacksmithing skill than simply the level at which you can work the armor, and enchanting is basically the glue that holds the whole system together in terms of long-term interest, so you pump as much into enchanting as you can. (And the results are still pretty tame unless you've got blacksoul gems, potions and a good amount of skill. Most scaled items you find in game will be better than anything you can craft for half the game otherwise.)

So I think most people end up spamming those three things, because they have the most direct impact and are the most interesting parts of the game for your character....and it leads to more gross over-leveling. I know I gained three levels in just one session of blacksmithing so I could get the Elven armor perk. Those activities are where you stop playing the game naturally and game the system....and I think they'd be MUCH better if they were detached from gaining experience, or had the experience values nerfed several times over. Then it becomes about the resource scarcity, and you can kind of separate the two.

And I can't honestly say that fans would react positively to removing some of the classic systems that were in place.

Bethesda has had this nice "mix and match" philosophy with the games for a while....which is why I was so surprised that they backed away from it in this. The spellcrafting and enchanting worked in Oblivion and Morrowind....why make it smaller? It's like they reserved the right to break the game in cool ways for the devs alone, by making it so the player could never produce anything as good as, say, Krosis.

[Duke 2.0]

The spellcrafting and enchanting worked in Oblivion and Morrowind

I'm gonna have to stop you right there and laugh for a little bit.

 I think Alchemy was the only thing that halfway worked of those systems.

[Leatra]

Right use of spellcrafting and enchanting could make you immortal in Oblivion (and maybe in Morrowind. Never tried that)

Edit: Just found this link. You need some artifacts though. http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:End_Game_Optimizing#Armor_Enchantments
Edit2: This is interesting: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Hardest_Difficulty_Strategy_Guide

I guess they work if you don't abuse the system.

[shadenight123]

everything taken in moderation is fine.
instead of saying "enchanting, smithing alchemy" are breaking the gameplay experience, or making the game harder/easier, you should say:
"this skills are prone to abuse. in the event you abuse of it, be warned that it might make your game harder or damn easier, and it's no fun having an easier game. so, remembering this, instead of giving the fault to the bethesda folks, give the fault to yourself who wanted so badly the dwarven armour at level 3 that you grinded smithing all the way."