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[Dakorma]

The voice acting was bad

Worse then Oblivion where everyone was either derranged, Neighbourly, or Patric Stewart?

It's mostly something like this.

"
Jerry: Get back into the house kids
2 second pause
Jon&Tim:But I don't want to.
2 second pause
Jerry: I said get back in the house
2 second pause
Tim: But dad I want to watch the soldiers.
2 second pause
Jon: Yeah!
2 second pause
Jerry: For the last time, get back in the house.
2 second pause
Jon and Tim: Fine"



As for the general state of bugs on release there's the fact that they are claiming the review copies they are showing are Pre-alpha, which is laughable, considering pre-alpha code is not something you EVER EVER EVER show off. Pre-Beta maybe, pre-alpha no.

Alpha testing looks like this.

OK. Problem in the meshe exporter is causing me to fall through the world. Bug report and fix.
OK. Problem with the lighting is causing the world to go dark if it's set at absolute max, or absolute zero. Bug report and work around suggestion.
OK. Problem with the meshe exporter is causing the eyes of everything to make rapid orbits around their heads. Bug report and fix suggestion.
OK. the testbed cell we are using got corrupted by the changes we made in the exporters, fuck welll it was about time to replace them. Make a new test cell.

The bugs reported by the journalists were beta type bugs, not alpha type bugs.

I'm saying this as someone whose been payed to alpha and beta test games. And done it for free.

Anyway before I go into my next rant, chillax and listen to some music. I'd recommend some Ezra Furman and the Harpoons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN0RJMisB9k&feature=related

This rant is called Why Dragons? It's something I've been working on for a while.

Why Dragons? Why revive an ancient ally and make them enemies, when there's plenty of other stories to tell within the mythos.

First allow me to summerize the previous three game's plots.

Daggerfall, you are an unknown person shipwrecked after being sent toward the kingdom of Daggerfall to attempt to deliver a letter, and help quash a potential rebellion. The empire is in a state of near collapse, the events of arena have left the empires individual nations bordering on rebellion, and you have been sent to recover the key to the Numidium, a giant mecha/steam tank that Tiber Septim used along with the battlespire to conquer the world 300 years ago. After this because of the vast amount of player choice inherent in the plot, things become muddled. Eventually though the character sides with one of the 8 factions in the land of Daggerfall giving them the key, and it brings about an event called the dragon break, which is basically a plot kai, that implies that Akatosh saw the event and possibilities become muddled, and basically said fuck it and braids them together. Making all of them happen at once, but in a half assed method. The orcs formed their nation. The King of Worms became a god then Ar'kay decided fuck it, snapped the godling in half and sent the king of worms back to the earth, and made the god of worms grow dormant. For without death, there is no reason for a god of death. Each of the kings were brought into balance and the empire remained in control.

Morrowind, you are an unknown person brought by boat to the land of Morrowind,  through a series of boring and tedious tasks you eventually discover you are the prophesized return of the ancient Dunmer godking Nerevar, who at one point united the tribes and houses in joyful upheaval to fight the dwemer, and the empire. Essentially the whole plot builds up the fact that you slowly discover that you are the Resurrection of this. But the ending if you read all the texts, and talk with the correct people, lends itself to the belief that, you are not in fact the Resurrection of Nerevar, but merely another pawn of Azura with no more merit than anyone or anything else. Just a weapon sent towards the enemy. Soon to be quickly forgotten. Anyway at the end of it, you kill the heart of lorkhan killing dagoth ur for the final time, and leaving the tribunal, powerful but now mortal. The expansions lead to you facing other god like beings from other prophesies. You kill Amalexia who had spent all this time waiting for her Snugglebunny Nerevar to come back from the dead. To the point of using shapeshifting clones to replicate him for bedroom activities. In short she had gone completely insane, and used the fact that the heart of lorkhan at this point had been destroyed(The expansion pretty much assumes you've played through the original game.) to kill her rival, the generally sarcastic, sadistic, heartless, machine obsessed, fuckwit Sotha Sil. Meanwhile Vivec sat in his city with full knowledge that he didn't fucking care what happened, he'd already essentially become an actual god, without riding on the coattails of a dead one. Seriously it's heavily implied he mastered the techniques of walking like a god. Which means by all rights and purposes, he is a god. After that, most of the tribunal being dead, an island less than a mile off the coast of a major city, is discovered, just in time for their prophesy to come into effect, the Blood Moon, when Hircine, one of the lesser daedra, comes to nirn to take all comers, you eventually duel him into submission.

Oblvion, god help me. Oblivion has you as a prisoner in the imperial city, unknown birthright and unknown crime, you're sent off on a quest by digital Jean Luc Picard, to deliver the amulet of kings to jaufre after he has been assassinated by a rebellious cult. Through a series of quests that likely could have been resolved by a quick jaunt around the imperial city looking at family trees. You discover Martin and save him, at the end of the game, he walks as Talos did, and becomes an avatar of akatosh for a brief period, becoming the dragon fires and sealing the world from oblivion all together. Only that violates every bit of lore previous. And you know what this is to raise questions not to bitch, so carrying on. You eventual discover that, somehow even Martins sacrifice wasn't enough, and Sheogorath has opened a door to his world, where you take part in the inner politics of the courts of mania and dementia, and the inner mind of Sheogorad, who is technically Jyggalag one of the lost daedra, the daedra of order. Who was chained to Sheogorad for some transgressions previous. The game ostensibly ends with you becoming Sheogorath. And thus fading into obscurity behind the face of a god.

This is the game that also covered the idea of the faceless hero. A concept that is also integral to the elder scrolls series. That of a person who is born into the world to enact a massive change, then to fade into unknown regions. The curse of this being that you can't form any meaningful relations, and you cannot really lead, you are cursed by fate to simply lead briefly then go where the lust for adventure tells you to go. The hero of daggerfall, ostensibly died at the end. The hero of arena, again died. The "Nerevarine/Pawn of Azura" went of the Akavir, likely seeking something. The hero of oblivion, became a god and because of it was doomed to never be recognized again.

Allow me to posit some different plots that I think would be in line with the elder scrolls key theme of "Political Intrigue Stirring a High Fantasy Adventure."


Sloads were contacted to provide slave labor and necromantic soldiers to maintain the dying empire, doing so is taxing the empire, with it's new democracy preventing them from raising taxes, but having them do everything they can to maintain their hold. As their credit slowly slips down the drain, and more any more lands are simply bought by the sload to alleviate debt. The story would be one of rebellion in Hammerfall the first province sold to the sload, as you, a newcomer who rediscovers the arts of the yokudan blade masters starts in a sload workcamp, where you pick up a stick and it forms a blade over it. You slowly retake hammerfall from the sload forming it into an empire all their own. The game would culminate with you accidently in a furious clash with a sload overlord, blowing up the city you were in. Nearly killing youself. You crawl away, still living and scarred to the point of unrecognizability. The lore in the next game would have sighting of you in the sload homelands taking the fight to them. You'd still have the bad ass unique type of magic. You'd still have a new enemy type in the sload and their various undead. And it wouldn't look like Oblivion 2 point 0. It wouldn't be generic fantasy.


Picture this. Nordic Lands, Sky's Rim, Akaviri everywhere, Skyrim was their foothold. Fighting has mostly died down, embargos are in place, you cannot get in or out of Skyrim, west Morrowind, and east High Rock, On the borders skirmishs are happening, but the blades have reformed, and are doing their best to defend the empires borders. Here you are in this landscape, son of the King of the Ko Po Tun, illegitimately, of course, given up to a small family, imprisoned in a rebel fortress for being a half breed. You quest then becomes, do you annihilate the akiviri for their transgressions against you and your mothers people. Or do you side with the Akaviri and promote control of the humans. Along the way you meet your brother a full dragon, who becomes your ally in this quest. You are Dovahkin, dragon born, doomed and predicted to be the herald of a new empire, whether akiviri or human. Boom instantly better and more concurrent than the current plot that we know of. Which is that Alduin the world eater gets angry and yells at the world some spawning dragons and you, so defeat him before he eats the world.


There was another one I had but honestly after writing all that I think I've done enough.

[fred1248]

oh god, a wall of text, someone give me the tl;dr version

[scriver]

@Dakorma -
Try the Redguard game. It's almost exactly what you described, except beiny one man's personal quest.

Now, why make an old ally an enemy, you ask?

Spoiler: Lorestuff, spoilered for being possible Skyrim plot twist (click to show/hide)

Because there never was any old ally to begin with. There was always an enemy. Alduin, the World-Eater, == Akatosh, lord of dragons. He, the mantle he carries, has ended the world several times before, in the previous kalpas. One day, he will end the current iteration of the world as well. Akatosh is not a good guy, he never were. That is why the dragons seems to suddenly had gone from ally to enemy.

Begin nitpick:

Also why would the Empire ever hire Sload to get slaves. Sload get their slaves from Tamriel, for example Morrowind, in the first place. The Empire would have no reason to have them act as a middle-man.

Also also Sotha Sil was the most "humane"/Dunmer-sympathising of the Tribunal. That's why his skin is blue like the Dunmer, while Almalexia vainly kept herself golden like the Chimer and Vivec is half-half (in tune with his whle duality theme as well). And Vivex did not just become "an actual god" - all three of them were true gods anywag - he transcended the world, godhood, and the Everything.

End nitpick.

[Dakorma]

@Dakorma -
Try the Redguard game. It's almost exactly what you described, except beiny one man's personal quest.

Now, why make an old ally an enemy, you ask?

Spoiler: Lorestuff, spoilered for being possible Skyrim plot twist (click to show/hide)

Because there never was any old ally to begin with. There was always an enemy. Alduin, the World-Eater, == Akatosh, lord of dragons. He, the mantle he carries, has ended the world several times before, in the previous kalpas. One day, he will end the current iteration of the world as well. Akatosh is not a good guy, he never were. That is why the dragons seems to suddenly had gone from ally to enemy.

Except that's what the nords believe. Not what anyone else really does. The Mer think he's just dandy, what with him and his being the progenitors of their race. Akatosh is tied to the world. As far as I recall being mentioned previously, he's the reason there is a world at all. The formation of time allowed the Anuic stasis to set in. After he formed Arkay, what came after time, death, the next essential component of stasis. The thing about the Aedra and the Daedra, is that they are mirrors of each other, base concepts relating to their progenitor realm. Anu, and Sithis, Padomay, and Anu, oblivion and the aeribus, change and stasis.  The land of Nirn lies at their center, built on the remains of Lorkhan who lured the Aedra to helping him violate their nature and make the lands at the edge of change and stasis, and was then slain by the Aedra for his deceit becoming the bones and blood of the world. This is the reason the moons, rise from the west, and the sun rises east. The sun is the unchanging light of Anu, the moons sings of Sithis' reign. The thing that makes humans and mer unique, is that they can rise to the aeribus when they die. Their souls become locked as they were in death. The nords have a concept of those locked from the Auribus for being too changing. The soul of the unknown hero is said to be one of these. The nords and chimer, orsimer, and Khajit rally against the forces of Anu, because they are children of change. While the other elves, tend to be unchanging, and rally against the forces of Padomay. It's one of the great dichotomies in the series that drives it's mythology. It's not a battle of mere gods, but of concepts of change and stasis, primordial forces mostly beyond comprehension.

Begin nitpick:

Very well. Let's have a dialogue.

Also why would the Empire ever hire Sload to get slaves. Sload get their slaves from Tamriel, for example Morrowind, in the first place. The Empire would have no reason to have them act as a middle-man.

First off, the sload get slaves from other places away from the empire. Places that the people on Nirn have abandoned. Like the remains of Yokuda, Atmora, the island chain to the south of nirn. They also buy slaves from tamriel, the reason tamriel would go to them, is because then they could deny that they were using slaves. Oh, we've just hired the sloads to build our computers, we have no say in how the workers are treated.

Not only that, but the sloads are all insanely powerful necromancers.

Also also Sotha Sil was the most "humane"/Dunmer-sympathising of the Tribunal. That's why his skin is blue like the Dunmer, while Almalexia vainly kept herself golden like the Chimer and Vivec is half-half (in tune with his whle duality theme as well). And Vivex did not just become "an actual god" - all three of them were true gods anywag - he transcended the world, godhood, and the Everything.

No the other Tribunal, were demigods who aligned themselves with the heart of lorkhan. Attuning themselves to the world and rendering them mostly immortal. What vivec learned how to do, was to call on the very forces of Padomay, and walk like a god. It's a concept that's inherent, it's what Talos did to ascend to godhood. Vivec was the Mysticism, and the sage. Sotha Sil, was knowledge for knowledges sake, and locked himself in his city, far sooner than Amalexia did. He was the most humane, in that he was the most human. He was the weakest, he could not match the physicality of Amalexia, nor the Mysticism of Vivec. So he attempted to master machinery, and in some ways, he was better at it then the Dwemer were.

End nitpick.

Very well, I hope you have enjoyed the dialogue.

[Neonivek]

and Sheogorath

Goodness... I know that is from Elder scrolls but for some reason I can't help but picture the Black Goat of the Forest.

no wait that is Yog-Soggoth

[Dakorma]

and Sheogorath

Goodness... I know that is from Elder scrolls but for some reason I can't help but picture the Black Goat of the Forest.

no wait that is Yog-Soggoth

“The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young” is Shub-Niggurath.

Yog-Sothoth is "The Key Behind the Gate, The All-In-One and the One-In-All, and The Lurker Behind the Threshold."

[Cecilff2]

@Dakorma -
Try the Redguard game. It's almost exactly what you described, except beiny one man's personal quest.

Now, why make an old ally an enemy, you ask?

Spoiler: Lorestuff, spoilered for being possible Skyrim plot twist (click to show/hide)

Because there never was any old ally to begin with. There was always an enemy. Alduin, the World-Eater, == Akatosh, lord of dragons. He, the mantle he carries, has ended the world several times before, in the previous kalpas. One day, he will end the current iteration of the world as well. Akatosh is not a good guy, he never were. That is why the dragons seems to suddenly had gone from ally to enemy.

Except that's what the nords believe. Not what anyone else really does. The Mer think he's just dandy, what with him and his being the progenitors of their race. Akatosh is tied to the world. As far as I recall being mentioned previously, he's the reason there is a world at all. The formation of time allowed the Anuic stasis to set in. After he formed Arkay, what came after time, death, the next essential component of stasis. The thing about the Aedra and the Daedra, is that they are mirrors of each other, base concepts relating to their progenitor realm. Anu, and Sithis, Padomay, and Anu, oblivion and the aeribus, change and stasis.  The land of Nirn lies at their center, built on the remains of Lorkhan who lured the Aedra to helping him violate their nature and make the lands at the edge of change and stasis, and was then slain by the Aedra for his deceit becoming the bones and blood of the world. This is the reason the moons, rise from the west, and the sun rises east. The sun is the unchanging light of Anu, the moons sings of Sithis' reign. The thing that makes humans and mer unique, is that they can rise to the aeribus when they die. Their souls become locked as they were in death. The nords have a concept of those locked from the Auribus for being too changing. The soul of the unknown hero is said to be one of these. The nords and chimer, orsimer, and Khajit rally against the forces of Anu, because they are children of change. While the other elves, tend to be unchanging, and rally against the forces of Padomay. It's one of the great dichotomies in the series that drives it's mythology. It's not a battle of mere gods, but of concepts of change and stasis, primordial forces mostly beyond comprehension.

The Mer have the same view of Alduin as the Nords do.  Both know he destroys the world at the end of every kalpa.  Mer think it's good because they'll be turned back into et'ada afterwards and live their wonderful godlives again.  Men think it's bad because they believe Shor(Lorkhan) created the world for them to learn how to surpass it.  Aka isn't the sole reason for the world's existance.  If you consider Akatosh as time, Lorkhan is space.  Both are required.

No the other Tribunal, were demigods who aligned themselves with the heart of lorkhan. Attuning themselves to the world and rendering them mostly immortal. What vivec learned how to do, was to call on the very forces of Padomay, and walk like a god. It's a concept that's inherent, it's what Talos did to ascend to godhood. Vivec was the Mysticism, and the sage. Sotha Sil, was knowledge for knowledges sake, and locked himself in his city, far sooner than Amalexia did. He was the most humane, in that he was the most human. He was the weakest, he could not match the physicality of Amalexia, nor the Mysticism of Vivec. So he attempted to master machinery, and in some ways, he was better at it then the Dwemer were.

Vivec did NOT mantle a god like Talos did.  CHIM is vastly different than mantling.  Talos acquired CHIM after mantling Lorkhan and coming to the same realization that Vivec did.  Vivec realized he was the world, but that he was also himself.  Lorkhan failed CHIM to show how not to do it.  If you realize you are the world and fail to retain individuality you zero-sum and poof away.

[PTTG??]

A very interesting article I read once suggests that Vivec, having mastered CHIM, was actually able to access the construction set, and his ability to do so was noted in an in-game book- something about his extra-spatial workshop wherin he has a notebook that lists the identity and location of all people.

[Sensei]

Hmm, maybe I'll have to read those damn chronicles of Vivec, or trawl the list of book files in the editor after some fashion.

[Soadreqm]

A very interesting article I read once suggests that Vivec, having mastered CHIM, was actually able to access the construction set, and his ability to do so was noted in an in-game book- something about his extra-spatial workshop wherin he has a notebook that lists the identity and location of all people.

Vivec put on his armor and stepped into a non-spatial space filling to capacity with mortal interaction and information, a canvas-less cartography of every single mind it has ever known, an event that had developed some semblance of a divine spark.

Sermon nineteen. If you want to read the in-game books, this place is pretty convenient.

As for lore, Vivec has this to say:

The waking world is the amnesia of dream. All motifs can be mortally wounded. Once slain, themes turn into the structure of future nostalgia. Do not abuse your powers or they will lead you astray. They will leave you like rebellious daughters. They will lose their virtue. They will become lost and resentful and finally become pregnant with the seed of folly. Soon you will be the grandparent of a broken state. You will be mocked. It will fall apart like a stone that recalls that it is really water.

[...]

According to the Codes of Mephala there can be no official art, only fixation points of complexity that will erase from the awe of the people given enough time.

[scriver]

Cecliff already said a lot, but I want to ramble on some about it as well, so here we go.

Except that's what the nords believe. Not what anyone else really does. The Mer think he's just dandy, what with him and his being the progenitors of their race.

Everybody believe the same thing - see the Monomyth. At most, they have different perspectives different perspectives.

Akatosh is tied to the world. As far as I recall being mentioned previously, he's the reason there is a world at all. The formation of time allowed the Anuic stasis to set in. After he formed Arkay, what came after time, death, the next essential component of stasis.

To put it simply; Akatosh is Time. When Time is up, the world will end. Anuic stasis ended the moment it began to interact with it's counterpart. Akatosh was born from that interaction/struggle. So was Lorkhan, messenger of Change, personification of Limits, or Space, because Time cannot be measured without Space, and Space can not be measured without Time. This is why Akatosh and Lorkhan were originally one-and-whole, they're two sides of the same coin, a mind split in two. It was only through their existence that other et'Ada came into being, because before them there was no concepts for them to embody. Arkay served no purpose for for a long time, hence the belief that he was once a man made a god - he did not serve any purpose until mortality was created.

The thing that makes humans and mer unique, is that they can rise to the aeribus when they die.

Mortals to not go to Aetherius when they die. Their souls go to the Dreamsleeve, where they are recycled and send back to Nirn. What makes (not only men and elves, but all) mortals unique is that they have the possibility to transcend Mortality. Doing so will not make them "rise to" Aetherius, it's something much greater. This was Lorkhans gift to the world, the purpose of his creation. The Aedra that would become Elves did not understand that, so they killed Lorkhan and hated him for the "limitations" he had imposed on them, while the Aedra that would become Men understood and rejoiced in their new opportunity.

Their souls become locked as they were in death. The nords have a concept of those locked from the Auribus for being too changing. The soul of the unknown hero is said to be one of these. The nords and chimer, orsimer, and Khajit rally against the forces of Anu, because they are children of change.

While the other elves, tend to be unchanging, and rally against the forces of Padomay. It's one of the great dichotomies in the series that drives it's mythology. It's not a battle of mere gods, but of concepts of change and stasis, primordial forces mostly beyond comprehension.

All living (and non-living too, for that matter) things are "locked out of Aetherius". That is the whole point of Creation. That is what Lorkhan "tricked" the et'Ada into. Those who realised what was happening in time escaped, those who didn't became the Aedra and part of the world. They can't leave it without leaving themselves behind, unless they take Lorkhan on the offer he made them and attempts to transcend it. That is the fundamental difference between the mindsets Men and Mer - Man's world view is that Creation is good and Lorkhan was right, Elves believe Creation was wrong and strive to revert it. That is why Men view the World-Eating as a bad thing, it destroys the world and their chances of ascension; while Elves think Alduin/Akatosh is a pretty cool dude who will "restore order" and make them gods again.

First off, the sload get slaves from other places away from the empire. Places that the people on Nirn have abandoned. Like the remains of Yokuda, Atmora, the island chain to the south of nirn. They also buy slaves from tamriel, the reason tamriel would go to them, is because then they could deny that they were using slaves. Oh, we've just hired the sloads to build our computers, we have no say in how the workers are treated.

Not only that, but the sloads are all insanely powerful necromancers.

Yes, but it would be much more simpler and logical to enslave people directly in Tamriel instead, not to mention more economical (not that slavery would save any society from collapse anyway, if you're doing it for economical reasons - slavery is expensive and bad for economies). Slavery is nothing new to Tamriel. The elves do it, High Rock is an analogue to medieval feudal society, including serfs. They would have no reason to "deny" they're using slaves.

No the other Tribunal, were demigods who aligned themselves with the heart of lorkhan. Attuning themselves to the world and rendering them mostly immortal. What vivec learned how to do, was to call on the very forces of Padomay, and walk like a god. It's a concept that's inherent, it's what Talos did to ascend to godhood. Vivec was the Mysticism, and the sage. Sotha Sil, was knowledge for knowledges sake, and locked himself in his city, far sooner than Amalexia did. He was the most humane, in that he was the most human. He was the weakest, he could not match the physicality of Amalexia, nor the Mysticism of Vivec. So he attempted to master machinery, and in some ways, he was better at it then the Dwemer were.

Vivec did NOT mantle a god like Talos did.  CHIM is vastly different than mantling.  Talos acquired CHIM after mantling Lorkhan and coming to the same realization that Vivec did.  Vivec realized he was the world, but that he was also himself.  Lorkhan failed CHIM to show how not to do it.  If you realize you are the world and fail to retain individuality you zero-sum and poof away.

To be precise, the ones the Tribunal mantled were Mephala (by Vivec), Boethiah (Almalexia) and Azura (Sotha Sil), the three Daedra the Chimer worshipped. But Vivec achieving CHIM has nothing to do with that, as Cecliff said.

Now, for this claim that they were "demi-gods" - they were not. Just because they harvested or stole their godhood from the Heart does not make them less gods. Omnipotence is not a trait of any TES god, and neither is everlasting godhood. Gods die, gods vain, and gods change.

Very well, I hope you have enjoyed the dialogue.

I did, thank you very much

A very interesting article I read once suggests that Vivec, having mastered CHIM, was actually able to access the construction set, and his ability to do so was noted in an in-game book- something about his extra-spatial workshop wherin he has a notebook that lists the identity and location of all people.

CHIM being like the CS is just one of many simplifying allegories that have come up as people keep asking "what is CHIM?" but never accepting the answers (though of course, most of the time people just answer "go find out yourself ). There are however many references to the ES world being a game series snuck into the lore, especially anything that has to do with Vivec, so I wouldn't be surprised. Biggest of all, perhaps, the part of it all being a dream as dreamt by a sleeping Godhead - that is, symbolically, the imagination of the dude playing it.

[Sensei]

On a different but no more nitpicking note:

The Havok Physics Engine logo is gone from the box. So, do you think they've made their own physics engine, or just removed physics? Do items still roll all over the place? Are the physics-based traps in oblivion going to see a return? Most of it was pretty tacked on in Oblivion, but a lot of modding possibilities were still created by it.

[Reiina]

On a different but no more nitpicking note:

The Havok Physics Engine logo is gone from the box. So, do you think they've made their own physics engine, or just removed physics? Do items still roll all over the place? Are the physics-based traps in oblivion going to see a return? Most of it was pretty tacked on in Oblivion, but a lot of modding possibilities were still created by it.

Hmm I looked it up a bit and skyrim uses havok behavior, an animation tool from the same developer as havok but as far as I can tell it's just an animation toolkit to blend animations together. I didn't find any mention of the havok physics engine either.

I have only watched the 20 first mins and not any of the new vids posted(and I don't want to :p) and that makes me wonder too. I would be surprised if they dropped havok physics though, having used it a bit I can say it's an absolutely brilliant physics simulator.

On the plus side, looking for that I discovered that skyrim dropped gamebryo altogether and believe me that's great news, it was a useless layer slowing oblivion down imo.

[Sordid]

I'm sure it's still there, I recall seeing that retarded physics-based item placement in one of the videos.
Personally I do hope it's gone. It added nothing to the gameplay of Oblivion. And scattering everything in the room just by walking through it gets really annoying really fast.

[Yoink]

If it is still in there, please Bethesda, at least give us (hopefully an improved version of) Fallout 3's ability to pick stuff up and move it...
Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to fill the bathtub of my Megaton house up with mutilated bodyparts, courtesy of DC's friendly neighborhood super mutants.