Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 555 556 [557] 558 559 ... 896

Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1615553 times)

pisskop

  • Bay Watcher
  • Too old and stubborn to get a new avatar
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8340 on: February 20, 2013, 05:42:22 pm »

Bullet deviation is part of it.  Just another part.  its just another form of gun accuracy, breathing, or whatever mechanism one has to function as chance.
Logged
Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

fqllve

  • Bay Watcher
  • (grammar) anarcho-communist
    • View Profile
    • ufowitch
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8341 on: February 20, 2013, 05:45:54 pm »

If we're going by realism standards, why does my gun get more accurate as my gun skill goes up? Is it that I learn to compensate for misaligned sights? Why not just be able to adjust the sights then, and if that's the case wouldn't that be better off as part of the repair skill?

Some amount of bullet deviation is realistic, yes, but there are two points to consider 1) realistic does not always mean good gameplay (ie fun) 2) deviation was ridiculously high at low levels making constant use of VATS almost required on higher difficulties.
Logged
You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.

forsaken1111

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • TTB Twitch
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8342 on: February 20, 2013, 05:50:46 pm »

If you guys want to discuss ARPG games in general or other games entirely as is the case now, please take it to another thread.
Logged

PanH

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8343 on: February 20, 2013, 05:52:55 pm »

Doing between x and y in a range of damage isn't really the same as doing no damage whatsoever, particularly in sneak attack situations.

Except for sneak attack, it's exactly the same. The results are determined by RNG, based of the values of weapon skill, block/armour (block doesn't work the same way though), and weapon in both cases. The frustration in Morrowind comes that the game didn't explained you why : "Hey there, you slipped on that rock and failed that sword attack", and just bluntly said you "Miss".

If we're going by realism standards, why does my gun get more accurate as my gun skill goes up? Is it that I learn to compensate for misaligned sights? Why not just be able to adjust the sights then, and if that's the case wouldn't that be better off as part of the repair skill?
It's your character's evolution. Would you shoot as easily a target the first time you wield a gun than after years of training ?
Logged

Ultimuh

  • Bay Watcher
  • BOOM! Avatar gone! (for now)
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8344 on: February 20, 2013, 06:01:17 pm »

So I finally solved a headache of a problem, which involved CTD's even if it shouldn't.
I would say it was not exactly because of a user problem. (Only partuially my own fault.)
But it was due to a utility which automatically made a single mod incompatible with itself.
Had to use hours trying to figure out what was wrong.
And the sollution was so simple, I should not even have to bother deleting a bunch of mods I suspected could be conflicting.
(Had to get them all again, and they work (almost) flawlessly now.)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:03:29 pm by Ultimuh »
Logged

Soadreqm

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm okay with this. I'm okay with a lot of things.
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8345 on: February 20, 2013, 06:31:57 pm »

Quote
First-person shooters have been doing that since forever. Moving or shooting makes the next shot less accurate, and staying still and pointing at the target makes the shot more accurate, which is communicated to the player visually with an expanding and contracting targeting reticle. Skyrim doesn't have that, but there's no reason why it couldn't.
The depends on if we're talking about aim sway or arrow deviation. If we're talking aim sway, fine, but for deviation a set up shot under fire is still going to be less accurate than one from the shadows. A miss under those circumstances doesn't prompt me to say "Oh well, I screwed up," it just prompts me to quick load. I've already said I'm ok with aim sway though because that puts targeting under my control.

To clarify, does "aim sway" mean that the reticle (or the whole screen) wobbles around, but arrows still hit exactly where the reticle is pointing? That is, you can't aim a ranged weapon towards a specific point, but do know with absolute certainty where the arrows are going to hit. Yeah, I was talking about arrow deviation. I don't think swaying would really make sense, except for things like actual sniper rifles. It takes effort to tell where a gun is pointing with the precision of a few arc minutes, and bows are right out. :P

To tell the truth, I'd probably quick load too, at least some of the time. Just as I might quick load after any other serious risk I took ended in decisive failure, such as failing to pick a pocket, or maybe just flat out dying. You know, quick loading because I screwed up. I knew in advance that there was a chance I was going to miss the enemy, and I took the shot anyway. I took a risk, and it didn't work out, and now I'm going to pretend that it never happened.

That's not really the point, though. What you seem to be saying is that there should not be a chance to miss the enemy, and I still don't understand why. In The Elder Scrolls games, you start the game in prison. Even if you're playing one of the games where you get to assign your own starting skills, you're not going to be a legendary epic marksman from the word go, any more than you are going to be a great sorcerer or a mighty warrior. You might become one or several of those over the course of the game, but you certainly don't start that way. If a game casts you as William Tell, things are different, but in TES, you are just a level one newbie, destined to eventually become great.

Is there a reason for the character to never miss?

The problem is that in Morrowind you were screwed by the RNG. There are limits to how accurately you can aim a weapon in game, and misses do happen based solely on the failure of the player. It really depends on how much player input you want to have, I play ARPGs because I enjoy player input. I like tactics and strategy well enough, but I also like action and reflexes and I certainly prefer that experience in an RPG setting (with a good story, developed characters, and ability to actually role-play) to the one in your typical action game.

Yeah, Morrowind had multiple issues. Hit chance was independent of range, so it didn't matter whether you were shooting at cliff racers you could barely see, or at a paralyzed Ogrim point-blank. And cliff racer hit boxes were all over the place. Doubly bad since cliff racers were exactly the kind of enemies you'd normally want to take out with a bow.

There's nothing wrong with liking games where character skill does not matter, but TES games have not traditionally been those games. Like, Skyrim still has an archery skill. The Dragonborn has a counter attached to him that's supposed to say how good he is with bows. And arrows always hit whatever he's pointing them at, no matter what that counter says. It just feels kind of jarring.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:34:49 pm by Soadreqm »
Logged

Vendayn

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8346 on: February 20, 2013, 08:29:20 pm »

It's the "rounded, almost chubby" features of the face, it makes it look prepubescent or early teens. Most "young looking" attempts have quite sharp features, giving them a look of ambiguous enough youth to 'pass'.

I've seen top rated screenshots on Nexus of people who made the children in Skyrim as playable, with some edits (different textures)...and about the same amount of cover (in terms of clothes) as mine. Even one dude made his into one to the CBBE body. And I believe they are still up. They were a month or so ago, and were in the top screenshots.

This will be the last time I say anything about this, since honestly, I just find it funny and I won't respond to anything more...

But I'm guessing the Nexus moderators never go to the beach, or live in a place that gets hot or go outside. Unless they live in igloos. If they did in the former, they would have a heart attack of what females (of all ages) wear.
Logged
My own website for Skyrim, Fallout 4, and many other games: http://vendayn.wix.com/skyrimvendayn

Vendayn

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8347 on: February 20, 2013, 08:47:43 pm »

What mods is everyone using?

Lighting: Unreal Cinema - ENB (looks amazing, and not saturated at all to my eyes)

Overhauls: Skyrim Redone, Better Vampires by Brehanin, Tales of Lycanthropy and Werewolf Mastery, SkyTEST

Survival/Hardcore: Frostfall, Winter is Coming - Cloaks, Realistic Hunger and Disease (but I'll be switching to Chesko's realistic needs mod when that is out), First Aid (this one is epic for a hardcore approach and not well known), a no fast travel mod (one of these survival mods has no fast travel, think Frostfall)

Other: Fishing in Skyrim (with fishing nets and poles!), Hunting in Skyrim (with own Hunter Guild (adds a Hunting...well...guild quest line to the game))

Some of those are my recent additions to my mod list...I use a lot, and I don't really want to type them all up. But those ones are my favorite (or new).

and I always set timescale to 5 (in the console (~) in-game)
Logged
My own website for Skyrim, Fallout 4, and many other games: http://vendayn.wix.com/skyrimvendayn

Ultimuh

  • Bay Watcher
  • BOOM! Avatar gone! (for now)
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8348 on: February 20, 2013, 08:59:06 pm »

What mods is everyone using?

A mix of a bunch of mods.
Approx 230 or so.
Why? Because I can.However it does crash once in a while.
If only I would know exactly which ones causes the crashes.
(But I am too lazy to bother searching through them all for the crash-happy mods.)
Logged

WillowLuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • They/Them Life is weird
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8349 on: February 20, 2013, 09:01:00 pm »

"Aesthetic" things, like everyone in town talking to you differently and the ruler being a different person with a different face and a different voice and a different attitude, seem like a big deal to me. All the guards wearing different uniforms is a lot more than you'd get from most games.
Except that in skyrim it does not really make a difference. It might assist your self imposed roleplaying. But in my opinion, when I play a RPG, I shouldn't be the one fantasizing things together because if that were the case, then i could go claim that GTA is a RPG because i role play in it(I don't).
Skyrim is not completely lacking consequences, but there's not many that makes a difference.
You say that the "aesthetic" changes when the ruler of a town changes is a big deal. It does not change anything for the player, theres a different voice actor saying the same things. Theres no change for the inhabitants as they go on doing the same things as before.
It's not a upset to the world order, it's just refurnishing the room.

Skyrim is like a big amusement park, where the only choice is which rides you're going to ride or not, because the ride goes on rails.

Disclaimer; Dialogues(monologues?) and quests are shit, and after the first playthrough I didn't bother with them unless it gave me some reward i wanted.

Say, anyone tried the monk mod? I think it was way of the fist or something.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 09:08:22 pm by HugoLuman »
Logged
Dwarf Souls: Prepare to Mine
Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
Darkest Garden - Illustrated game. - What mysteries lie in the abandoned dark?

Ultimuh

  • Bay Watcher
  • BOOM! Avatar gone! (for now)
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8350 on: February 20, 2013, 09:11:06 pm »

This mod should stop most quests from annoying you.
Granted, there still are couriers who search the whole Skyrim region for you to deliver a message.
But the actual qest dosnt start before you actually initiate it with the quest giver.
Altough there is one in Falkreath, but it can be dismissed as soon as you done the first part which shouldn't take more than a few seconds.
Logged

WillowLuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • They/Them Life is weird
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8351 on: February 20, 2013, 09:17:30 pm »

This mod should stop most quests from annoying you.
Granted, there still are couriers who search the whole Skyrim region for you to deliver a message.
But the actual qest dosnt start before you actually initiate it with the quest giver.
Altough there is one in Falkreath, but it can be dismissed as soon as you done the first part which shouldn't take more than a few seconds.

Those freaking couriers, I swear there's something not right about them. Wherever you run, they will find you. I saw one heading right towards me, and I say "Shit, it's gonna be another one of those mysterious letters. Let's see if I can dodge this."

So I fast travel to some remote dungeon, go in start killing necromancers, when suddenly, my view gets flipped around back and he's Standing. Right. There.
Logged
Dwarf Souls: Prepare to Mine
Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
Darkest Garden - Illustrated game. - What mysteries lie in the abandoned dark?

Vendayn

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8352 on: February 20, 2013, 09:20:17 pm »

This mod should stop most quests from annoying you.
Granted, there still are couriers who search the whole Skyrim region for you to deliver a message.
But the actual qest dosnt start before you actually initiate it with the quest giver.
Altough there is one in Falkreath, but it can be dismissed as soon as you done the first part which shouldn't take more than a few seconds.

Those freaking couriers, I swear there's something not right about them. Wherever you run, they will find you. I saw one heading right towards me, and I say "Shit, it's gonna be another one of those mysterious letters. Let's see if I can dodge this."

So I fast travel to some remote dungeon, go in start killing necromancers, when suddenly, my view gets flipped around back and he's Standing. Right. There.

I always think he is an enemy and kill him by accident. Then I get a bounty, because my companion saw rofl. Too bad I need my companion to carry all my loot :P
Logged
My own website for Skyrim, Fallout 4, and many other games: http://vendayn.wix.com/skyrimvendayn

fqllve

  • Bay Watcher
  • (grammar) anarcho-communist
    • View Profile
    • ufowitch
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8353 on: February 20, 2013, 09:22:55 pm »

To tell the truth, I'd probably quick load too, at least some of the time. Just as I might quick load after any other serious risk I took ended in decisive failure, such as failing to pick a pocket, or maybe just flat out dying. You know, quick loading because I screwed up. I knew in advance that there was a chance I was going to miss the enemy, and I took the shot anyway. I took a risk, and it didn't work out, and now I'm going to pretend that it never happened.
The problem is that quickloading all the time isn't fun, it isn't roleplaying, and it isn't living with the consequences of your choices. But in situations like that (and the pickpocketing you mentioned) I feel like the system encourages you to game it.

There are two situations I would be ok with arrow deviation. One is the Mount & Blade type system, where the reticule shows your maximum deviation, but the arrow actually still tends toward the center of that, and the other is one without a reticule at all. But that would require a seriously designed archery model in a series of games where archery has notably sucked. I doubt Bethesda is willing to put in the effort to do something like that well when they have only barebones melee combat, and archery modeled poorly is frustrating.

Quote
There's nothing wrong with liking games where character skill does not matter, but TES games have not traditionally been those games. Like, Skyrim still has an archery skill. The Dragonborn has a counter attached to him that's supposed to say how good he is with bows. And arrows always hit whatever he's pointing them at, no matter what that counter says. It just feels kind of jarring.
I didn't say I enjoy games where character skill doesn't matter, I don't especially because 80% of what I play is RPGs, but I do enjoy RPGs where I am allowed some control over my success in combat. The reason ARPGs, historically, were still focused on dice rolls is A) because they evolved from a genre heavy in dice rolls, and B) because their simulation of 3D environments wasn't sophisticated enough for movement in combat to model the various circumstances. Which is why as processing power progresses, so have ARPGs tended to drop random number generators in various situations.

And RP'ing in Skyrim isn't like playing Halo and pretending Chief's actually an android working for Soviet Russia.
I've had more fun RPing in Skyrim than in any other TES game bar Morrowind in large part because of the differing environments. You are given choices, you don't have to take all upgrade paths, you don't have to take all quests (excepting a couple annoying ones), you don't have to take any quests. Are the choices as deep as say Planescape: Torment? No, of course not, but in a lot of ways being presented with sophisticated dialogue options actually makes it harder to RP, just because it encourages you to think exactly what your character would say and that is rarely going to actually be reflected in the choices given. And the main reason I find Morrowind a more rewarding RP experience is because it had so many more guilds, and more conflict in their plots. Otherwise I don't think NPC interaction in Morrowind was really much better, and the dialogue was even more poorly written.

What mods is everyone using?
Mostly just SkyRealism, Frostfall, Climates of Tamriel, Better Magic, Duel, and a bunch of miscellaneous mods like various houses, some sound effect mods, and UI improvements.
Logged
You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.

WillowLuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • They/Them Life is weird
    • View Profile
Re: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #8354 on: February 20, 2013, 09:25:50 pm »

This mod should stop most quests from annoying you.
Granted, there still are couriers who search the whole Skyrim region for you to deliver a message.
But the actual qest dosnt start before you actually initiate it with the quest giver.
Altough there is one in Falkreath, but it can be dismissed as soon as you done the first part which shouldn't take more than a few seconds.

Those freaking couriers, I swear there's something not right about them. Wherever you run, they will find you. I saw one heading right towards me, and I say "Shit, it's gonna be another one of those mysterious letters. Let's see if I can dodge this."

So I fast travel to some remote dungeon, go in start killing necromancers, when suddenly, my view gets flipped around back and he's Standing. Right. There.

I always think he is an enemy and kill him by accident. Then I get a bounty, because my companion saw rofl. Too bad I need my companion to carry all my loot :P

How? How do you kill that creepypasta demon? I hit him with everything in the game and he just won't die! Must be essential or something...

Speaking of which, did anyone else panic and murder the crap out of Lucien Lachance the first time he showed up in Oblivion?
Logged
Dwarf Souls: Prepare to Mine
Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
Darkest Garden - Illustrated game. - What mysteries lie in the abandoned dark?
Pages: 1 ... 555 556 [557] 558 559 ... 896