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[Microcline]

I thought New Vegas did it best.  It had the same minigame but each lock required a minimum skill level.  The problem with Skyrim's system is that the character skill doesn't matter at all.  Lockpicks are dirt cheap and opening doors is just a matter of playing hotter/colder (or, for those above the age of twelve, performing a binary search).  If any build can pick any lock (except for the super special unpickable plot doors that are used to lock random cellars but not treasure vaults), what's the point of having a skill for it, apart from using the level scaling to pick on the type of people who thought swimming would be a good investment in Deus Ex?

Is it immersive to be able to pick every lock while playing as a barbarian who knows nothing about thieving? If you want to have a RP experience with Skyrim, you have to play the game with self-imposed rules.

Strictly speaking, I think this may be the definition of RP.

The implication of this argument is that any game that can be played with self-imposed restrictions is just as much and RPG as Skyrim.  Outside of GM-less freeform, most people often expect some types of simulationist elements in RPGs, and this becomes especially important in single-player CRPGs, where the computer takes many of the roles that would often be delegated to the GM.

Also, my money's still on Valenwood, for the reasons that I mentioned when the previous kalpa of this thread was talking about the next location.

[Leatra]

Oh noes, the game makes me use my brain and not rely on it for every single bit of prompting and hand holding.

I think you got it backwards if you are talking about lockpicking.

You had to have a high skill in security to pick locks easily. Now every lock can be picked easily. This just makes the game easier and lockpicking skill useless. Oblivion's lockpicking system required both player ability and character ability. High skill and good reflexes? You don't need that in Skyrim. Because who wants to pick locks when you can just kill something or follow a stupid marker?

Is it immersive to be able to pick every lock while playing as a barbarian who knows nothing about thieving? If you want to have a RP experience with Skyrim, you have to play the game with self-imposed rules.

Strictly speaking, I think this may be the definition of RP.

Definition of RP is playing with self-imposed rules? That just shows game isn't built as a RPG. Every game can be played like that. Yes, every game requires some effort but I'm talking about lockpicking. You need to be skilled to pick locks. That's what's logical.

[Micro102]

I miss stat and chance based hacking/lock-picking...

Wait what what no, what

The lockpicking minigame is one of the best improvements of Skyrim. There was an ingame ability to make it easier, but it relied majorly on the skill of the player to complete the minigame(And how many picks they can horde, but if you spend 20 on every master-level lock you won't have that much for long). You have three different avenues for completing it depending on the player and how prepared they are.

Granted minigames can suck like the Oblivion speechcraft one, but this one felt better than the Oblivion one so I'm totally cool with it and don't understand the mods for changing it to the Morrowind system.

Ok no....I have never bought a lockpick in my life. Have unlocked every lock I have come across, even master level. Have never spec'ed in lockpicking, and I have over 120 lockpicks sitting in my inventory. And it will only keep growing as I find lockpicks out int he wild and on corpses faster then I use them.

Oblivion was still too easy but not as easy as Skyrim. I used at least twice as many lockpicks on those locks.

[IronyOwl]

Is it immersive to be able to pick every lock while playing as a barbarian who knows nothing about thieving? If you want to have a RP experience with Skyrim, you have to play the game with self-imposed rules.

Strictly speaking, I think this may be the definition of RP.

Definition of RP is playing with self-imposed rules? That just shows game isn't built as a RPG. Every game can be played like that. Yes, every game requires some effort but I'm talking about lockpicking. You need to be skilled to pick locks. That's what's logical.

Microcline had a good point in that it can't really be applied as a blanket defense, but yes, RPing is playing with self-imposed rules. If you can name me a game where you RP simply by playing, most likely it's a very specific, subjective fluke.

[Sergius]

You mean self-imposed rules, for example, roleplaying Mario as a plumber with a deep phobia of turtles, playing the game in such a way that he never tries to jump on turtles or kill em in any way, always just running away from them? That's a cool role-playing game.

[Sensei]

You mean self-imposed rules, for example, roleplaying Mario as a plumber with a deep phobia of turtles, playing the game in such a way that he never tries to jump on turtles or kill em in any way, always just running away from them? That's a cool role-playing game.

Well... Mario never picks locks?

[Tellemurius]

You mean self-imposed rules, for example, roleplaying Mario as a plumber with a deep phobia of turtles, playing the game in such a way that he never tries to jump on turtles or kill em in any way, always just running away from them? That's a cool role-playing game.

Well... Mario never picks locks?

Nope he just had to look for some big ass key.

[Argonnek]

I've read through a handful of the arguments for and against Skyrim... And I find that the majority (of the small sample I've actually read through) compare it to previous ES games. I don't really get that. Why compare it to another? I prefer to play and experience a game based solely on what it contains. I don't listen to hype (as much as is possible) and avoid forming expectations like the plague. I hope I'm not the only one who does that.

[fqllve]

Ok no....I have never bought a lockpick in my life. Have unlocked every lock I have come across, even master level. Have never spec'ed in lockpicking, and I have over 120 lockpicks sitting in my inventory. And it will only keep growing as I find lockpicks out int he wild and on corpses faster then I use them.

Oblivion was still too easy but not as easy as Skyrim. I used at least twice as many lockpicks on those locks.

Oblivion's lockpicking minigame was crazy easy. Like MoM said, you can literally do it with your eyes closed. All you have to do is listen for the latch sound then lock the tumbler in place. Plus, depending on random chance and how slowly you lift the tumbler there is an amount of resistance, combine high resistance and the click and you have it. It is no trouble to pick a very hard lock with a lockpicking skill of 5 using only a single pick. In Oblvion I consider breaking a pick to be a mark of serious disgrace.

Skyrim at least requires you to be extremely delicate when spinning the lock and relies on random chance for the sweet spot placement. When picking a master lock at low skill you have to get lucky to not break at least a couple picks.

[Sordid]

I've read through a handful of the arguments for and against Skyrim... And I find that the majority compare it to previous ES games. I don't really get that. Why compare it to another?

Because they're part of the same series, built on the same engine and with the same design philosophy? It's like comparing a new model of a car to the old one. You wouldn't compare a Ferrari to a lorry, but it's perfectly okay to compare one Ferrari to another. Likewise, IMO it's perfectly okay to compare one TES game to another.

I prefer to play and experience a game based solely on what it contains. I don't listen to hype (as much as is possible) and avoid forming expectations like the plague. I hope I'm not the only one who does that.

Unfortunately I think you're in the minority.

[Spitfire]

I liked how Oblivion's lockpicking is very similar to the principles of RL-lockpicking.

I can't wrap my head around how the mechanics of locks in Skyrim are suppost to look like.

[bombzero]

seems its hard to make a good lockpicking minigame, that isn't TOO hard for newbies, or far too easy for anyone who's done it more than once... not real sure what they could do about this...

[Alastar]

You mean self-imposed rules, for example, roleplaying Mario as a plumber with a deep phobia of turtles, playing the game in such a way that he never tries to jump on turtles or kill em in any way, always just running away from them? That's a cool role-playing game.

Can't say I've done that... but I have played a couple of D&D based games as Rincewind (wizard, guessed the ability scores, no memorizing any spells ever). The solo run of Baldur's Gate 2 was the most amusing... I was thinking his catchphrase quite often but died surprisingly little.

[Sordid]

seems its hard to make a good lockpicking minigame, that isn't TOO hard for newbies, or far too easy for anyone who's done it more than once... not real sure what they could do about this...

Dispense with it altogether? I don't really like lockpicking minigames, because the difficulty curve is completely backwards. As you're playing you're getting better at the minigame and also your character's skill is going up, so the minigame starts out hard and gets easier over time. Surely that's not right. Personally I'd just get rid of it. I'd like to have automatic lockpicking, but the amount of time it takes and the amount of noise it makes would depend on your skill and the difficulty of the lock, with really hard locks being flat out impossible to pick at low skill levels.

[Rose]

I just want to be able to critically fail my door bash and be left with a door standing alone amidst a pile of rubble.