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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1615954 times)

scriver

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1635 on: November 18, 2011, 12:46:12 pm »

Quote
My friend just told me that, in effect, tamriel is actually one of the planes of oblivion, and was also once ruled by a deadra lord thing.

is this right? I want to be able to correct him/not sound like a twat when talking about tamriel.

it's what the guys from the mythic dawn cult believe.

it's not clear if they're right or not. it is said that Mundus was the lorkhan plane before it tricked daedra to become part of it to make it alive. (and thus becoming aedra); and it is said that it was not unlike oblivion in appearance before the mundus was created (but not the oblivion plane, a plane like oblivion)

First of all, a semantic correction and crash course in the mythology. At first, the gods were et'Ada (which means "original spirit"). Then Lorkhan convinced them to create Mundus. One group of et'Ada didn't want anything to do with Creation and went to reside in Oblivion, they became the Daedra. The rest went on to build the world. When the spirits realised they would have to "die" to build the world, many fled back into Aetherius, making holes between it and Oblivion while fleeing (these holes are the stars, and it's the light of Aetherius that shines through them, the biggest hole - the sun - is the hole made by Magus, Architect of the Mundus and god of magic). These, who managed to escape, remained et'Ada. The last group, those who had to give part of themselves to build the world, became the Aedra. A handful of them remained as personified gods, like the Divines. This is why they are called Aedra ("our ancestors") and Daedra ("not our ancestor"), the Aedra are ancestors because everything in the whole world are made up of them, while the Daedra had nothing to do with creation.

Oblivion also isn't a plane, it's the void were the Daedric planes reside. Mundus lies in the middle of the universe, Oblivion surrounds it. They're separate, unlike how the IRL Earth is just a small part of space. Think of it as an egg floating in the middle of a bowl of water. Mundus is the egg, the water is Oblivion. While the egg lies within the water, they are completely separate things.

Secondly, no, Mankar Camoran was not right, at least not about this. Mundus and Daedric planes are completely different things metaphysically. Saying that Mundus is Lorkhan's Plane like Moonshadow is Azura's plane is like saying apples are the same thing as leaves because they both grow on trees.

You see, a Daedric plane is the Daedra Prince itself. There is no difference between them. Mundus, however, is made out of uncountable amounts of Aedric spirits. Everything in it is originally an Aedra, every person, animal, tree, rock, speck of dust, gas, drop of liquid, everyone and everything is an Aedra, not just the few worshipped as gods by the mortals. Mundus is the plane of those spirits, belonging to everything it it. They also serve completely different purposes. A Daedric plane is just the Daedric Prince, and in a way, it's static unless the Prince change. Mundus is the Grey Maybe, a chance for change, renewal, and difference. Lorkhan didn't trick the Aedra into becoming the Mundus because he was an arse, he did it because he had a vision of something greater than what they had before, a vision of Transcendence beyond what they know. That is the gift he gave to the Aedra, and as such everybody in the world, before they killed him, as they did not understand how they could achieve something greater through their (as it appeared to them) deaths. The Mundus was, to Lorkhan, the springboard the Aedra would use to Transcend. It is everything Daedra and et'Ada is not.


Sanguine's a bro. I still remember our antics together at that party in Leyawiin. Good times.

Sanguine is your bro the same way crack is the addict's best friend.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1636 on: November 18, 2011, 12:54:23 pm »

I've nothing against your reconstruction which is accurate on all accounts.

Still I've to point out that you're presenting as fact a myth, reported on books, by second hand witnesses at best, on stories they heard within the context of a video game.

I'm just suggesting that there may be a little margin of interpretation.
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Werdna

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1637 on: November 18, 2011, 12:58:41 pm »

Any ESDF'rs find a way around the 'Favorites'-being-unmapable bug?  Driving me nuts using a newbish WASD setup.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 01:02:13 pm by Werdna »
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nenjin

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1638 on: November 18, 2011, 01:01:43 pm »

Quote
Just found this mod:

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=88

For those of you who want your re-bound keys to actually work! It will also reassign a lot of hard-coded wasd stuff to the arrow keys, make the mouse functional for entering/exiting, and makes common sense shit like hitting the favorites key again to close the favorites menu work!

Won't let you remap what keys function as favorites, but it strips out the hard-coded wasd stupidity in a lot of places, and adds in simple functionality that should have been there in the first place. (I.e., with this mod you can hit the favorites key again to close the favorites menu.)
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Werdna

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1639 on: November 18, 2011, 01:07:33 pm »

Won't let you remap what keys function as favorites, but it strips out the hard-coded wasd stupidity in a lot of places, and adds in simple functionality that should have been there in the first place. (I.e., with this mod you can hit the favorites key again to close the favorites menu.)

Yeah, have that one.  Maybe I need to read the Readme closer or try the DIY part and experiment.  I don't mind if the UI keeps telling me its F, if I can find some way to quietly make some other key do the Favoriting.  Thanks.
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scriver

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1640 on: November 18, 2011, 01:34:13 pm »

I've nothing against your reconstruction which is accurate on all accounts.

Still I've to point out that you're presenting as fact a myth, reported on books, by second hand witnesses at best, on stories they heard within the context of a video game.

I'm just suggesting that there may be a little margin of interpretation.

Only interpretation that goes against the rest of the mythos and the metaphysics ;)

But yeah, I'm presenting it as fact, because that is what I believe is right. If you look at the lore as a whole rather than as single, separated parts, it is what makes the most sense.
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SP2

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1641 on: November 18, 2011, 01:37:10 pm »

Well his blessing sucks. It reduces my time between shouts by 0%.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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irbis

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1642 on: November 18, 2011, 01:39:02 pm »

i just have to tell you about how proud i am to kill my very first Giant(two of them exactly in row) with a warrior character! at lvl 10, 41 1h fighting dual wielding two sky steel swords.

i was trying to figure out their pace and ive finaly found it out!
DAMN what a fight it was. i dont remember when i got such emotions from video game. but still dragons compared to giants are nothing.

i am so proud!

btw what is your favorite house guys? i tried the one next to smithy in Whiterun and regreted it much. its messy, clustered and dont have enchanting upgrade.

i was thinking about Honeyside in Riften but i havent been there yet.
the best house would be near some shops, fast travel mark and have a cool location.

 
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1643 on: November 18, 2011, 01:43:20 pm »

Which side of the war should I fight for? Stormcloaks, or Imperials?
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nenjin

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1644 on: November 18, 2011, 01:50:33 pm »

Personally, both sides seem like they're lead by jerks. Banning Talos was a stupid decision, Ulfric has delusions of grandeur, and basically the only people that want the war the are the Stormcloaks.

My Dunmer takes the position that this is someone else's stupid war and isn't going to get involved. In my next play through I might make a 7-foot tall Imperial badass or a heavy armor axe wielding Nord patriot. If you enjoy getting around the world and seeing everything though, I think getting involved in the Civil War just gets in the way.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 01:54:08 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

MorleyDev

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1645 on: November 18, 2011, 01:53:50 pm »

My first Giant kill was glorious. I used Animal Alliance to stop the Mammoth's chasing me and they killed the Giant. Then I aggro'd one so that the two Mammoths proceeded to engage in a surprisingly epic fight (reminded me of Scar vs Simba at the end of Lion King for some reason) and I killed the victor :D

Mundus is the egg, the water is Oblivion. While the egg lies within the water, they are completely separate things.

The Oblivion Crisis was cracks in the egg then? Actually, that's probably one thing I found so underwhelming in Oblivion: The majority of the backstory of the series was leading up to it. The destruction of the Redguard's homeworld, the Numidium and Mantella in Daggerfall, the Heart of Lokharn and death of Sotha Sil in Morrowind and a few other backstory elements were all, if you read, the loss of the "towers" keeping the shell between Mundus and Oblivion around. What we actually saw of the end result, one city destroyed and a few more daedra walking around, just felt...lackluster compared to what it could have been.

If anything, the plot of Skyrim seems to be them revisiting this concept and trying to do it better...and they do appear to be succeeding from what I've seen (I've restarted three times after finding Alduin's Wall, bloody chronic character restart syndrome) xD
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 01:55:47 pm by MorleyDev »
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Azkanan

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1646 on: November 18, 2011, 01:55:46 pm »

Personally, both sides seem like they're lead by jerks. Banning Talos was a stupid decision, Ulfric has delusions of grandeur, and basically the only people that want the war the are the Stormcloaks.

My Dunmer takes the position that this is someone else's stupid war and isn't going to get involved. In my next play through I might make a 7-foot tall Imperial badass or a heavy armor axe wielding Nord patriot. If you enjoy getting around the world and seeing everything though, I think getting involved in the Civil War just gets in the way.

Yeah, I'm currently totally ignoring the war on the same basis you've just said. All I want is a cushy house with a ton of gold in my pockets.

To do so, I need 25,000 Gold. I currently have 18,000 :D. <3 Thieves Guild.

So much for being an honest Merchant - why isn't there a decent economic system yet? Why can't I trade Wool in Riverwood for Lumber in Winterhelm, and such? D;
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1647 on: November 18, 2011, 01:55:58 pm »

Personally, both sides seem like they're lead by jerks. Banning Talos was a stupid decision, Ulfric has delusions of grandeur, and basically the only people that want the war the are the Stormcloaks.

My Dunmer take the position that this is someone else's stupid war and isn't going to get involved. In my next play through I might make a 7-foot tall Imperial badass or a heavy armor axe wielding Nord patriot. If you enjoy getting around the world and seeing everything though, I think getting involved in the Civil War just gets in the way.

Indeed.
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nenjin

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1648 on: November 18, 2011, 01:59:43 pm »

If the Imperial commander in Solitude is any indicator, their methods are probably just as draconian in the end. They're the faceless Imperial oppressors, after all. And the commander is a prick.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

MorleyDev

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #1649 on: November 18, 2011, 02:03:42 pm »

Well the game is definitely embracing the "no real heroes, no real villains" mentality when it comes to the politics of Skyrim. Not exactly an unwelcomed change considering "too black and white" was a common criticism of Oblivion compared to Morrowind's complex Great House politics (to say nothing of the Main Quest and the Temple)...

Okay, forget Skyrim. I'm keeping more of my eyes on this: http://xlengine.com/ They're doing a complete rewrite of the Daggerfall engine (well, amongst others) and they actually seem to have quite a bit of progress so far...awesome. I know OpenMW is doing something similar with the Morrowind engine, but Morrowind actually runs how it's meant to most of the time without breaking the entire game whilst Daggerfall...didn't.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 02:05:34 pm by MorleyDev »
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