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[ThtblovesDF]

Argh, I was having heaps of fun exploring, and shedding blood of various people based on my character's slightly unbalanced sense of justice...
When I stumbled upon a bug. A rather annoying one: Enemies, when I beat them down and pretty much land what should be the finishing blow, just crouch down for a bit and then get up, right as rain, to continue fighting.
At first I thought it was either a one-off glitch, they'd used a potion or I'd somehow missed them, but then it happened again, to a different person in the same fight.
Anyone know a fix? If I can't kill these people I kindof hit a brick wall in the quest I was doing.

Stop trying to kill plot relevant chars.

[Microcline]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

you complain, but youd probably be even more pissed if you turned up to join the theives guild and realized youd already murdered them. Or a man quest character got eaten by a dragon

IIRC the system has a class of "protected" NPCs who can't die due to unscripted NPC actions in addition to the standard Oblivion unkillable NPCs.  I think Skyrim is better in that it doesn't show an obvious mouseover icon, giving the player the illusion of freedom.

Personally, I think that being able to kill essential and quest-relevant characters makes players more careful about who they murder while adding weight to the murders that they do commit.  I'd go for "protected" NPCs (required due to the re-emergence of proceduralism in TES) and a Morrowind styled "You have severed the thread of fate" message whenever you kill someone who would prevent the game from being completed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

although IIRC less than seven of them are actually required to beat the game if you opt to use the backdoor

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

and none of them are required if you opt to break in through the wall by guzzling enough potions to counteract keening's "mortal wound" effect

[Azkanan]

I killed two dragons, one giant, two wolves and an ice wolf in one battle. Shouts are way overpowered. =|

there were no bears.
that's why you won.
bears would have killed you.

Bears are also easy wins nowadays. Sneak power dual-blade attack. If that doesnt kill them, shout them far away and then slash them to ribbons. :/

Blade Damage: 34
2-4 sneak hits
Sneak Multiplier: 6x (I think)

(34*2)*6 = 408 Damage
(34*4)*6 = 816 Damage

Spoiler: How to beat Enemies (click to show/hide)

Dragons = Dragonrend + Fire bow from cover.
Fort Sieges = Call Storm
Bosses = Sneak Attacks

Am I missing anything?

Ironically, the hardest thing in the game to kill are Slaughterfish. Can't use your weapon underwater, and your character folds his weapon in and out when you try to attack them from shallows, in the case of melee.

Edit;
Seriously, I should have won the game by now. I was on a newbie mission for the Empire, to take a message to Ulfric. I said, "Fuck this" then killed him, all his guards, and any incoming. That should be the end of the war. Sadly though, he got right back up. :|

[Yoink]

Spoiler: About aforementioned unkillable NPCs (click to show/hide)

Damn, you can't kill any guild NPCs? What the carp is that?
That really makes no sense whatsoever. I could understand if the game didn't let you kill the pivotal characters in the main quest, but some little guild quest? Whyy?!
Pretty bad design choice, really. It could at least have a message/dialogue box when you are about to kill them, making it rather clear that killing said person will prevent you from completing a quest line.

All-in-all, that's rather lame. Time to make a new character! ...And with these maddening restrictions on killing that the game apparently has, I suppose they'll have to be some sort of Buddhist monk equivalent.

[ThtblovesDF]

Every single of those npcs has quests for you. There gear is not better then regular bandit trash in anyway and even then you can pickpocket that if you really want to...


I dunno, but it seems to me that attacking with 2x one handed weapons for a sneak attack only does 6x damage once and the "2end weapon" is not as sielent. At one point i had to do a mission without being seen and killing a enemy with one strike of one weapon = quiet, but using both = loud.

[Teneb]

Why would you want to murder everyone that you come across?


Wait... stupid question, nevermind that.

Spoiler: My archer (click to show/hide)

Thieves guild armor + Steed Stone = Pack Mule

Anyone here managed to find Sheogorath's quest?

Spoiler: spoilery picture (click to show/hide)

[Azkanan]

I dunno, but it seems to me that attacking with 2x one handed weapons for a sneak attack only does 6x damage once and the "2end weapon" is not as sielent. At one point i had to do a mission without being seen and killing a enemy with one strike of one weapon = quiet, but using both = loud.

You must be doing it wrong. :/.

My sneak is pretty high, I can do a dance in front of them, in the dark, and they can't see me. So, I tend to be able to get a couple of hits in, from behind, before they turn around and "See" me, because they can't hear me.

[ThtblovesDF]

I am saying that the 6x bonus damage is applyed only on the first hit with the first weapon.
Test it, let me know how it turns out.

[Duke 2.0]

Pretty bad design choice, really.

It could be better, but I wouldn't say it's bad. New players to the series often don't catch these things, even professional gamers gloss over pretty important stuff. And while unkillable NPC's is immersion-breaking, it only does it after the fact. It only really pops up if you are a mindless killing machine, where immersion is less stressed. If you are just dicking around and accidentally harm some random person and get slapped in the face with a warning message immersion gets smacked down pretty early on.

 It's a gripe that is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

[Ivefan]

So where to find the masked dragon lords? only found one in a dragons nest.

[Greiger]

I kinda agree with Duke there they need to do something so you don't break the game accidentally.  I haven't gone on any murderous rampages in skyrim yet, but if it's similar to oblivion EVERY quest NPC is immortal, whether the quest is important or not, which can be ridiculous.

I was always thinking a mod to make them all permanently killable would be great, but the next autosave quicksave or manual save it gives you a list of quests that have been broken (questlines in skyrim since it keeps track of them) and asks to confirm before saving.  If any of the big main quests are broken it does a second "You really fucked over the plot, are you absolutely sure?" confirmation and puts a flag someplace on the save file screen to indicate such.

One of the things I liked about DM-ing D&D back in the day was planning out edge cases, trying to predict the players doing something unpredictable, and not in line with the planned plot.  And while I think the Bethesda folks do pretty good work the majority of the time, making important NPCs unkillable reeks of laziness. 

Especially with Ulric and whoever the leader of the leigon is.  If you back one side or the other It does not seem to be much of a stretch for the player to attempt to kill the leader of the other faction.  I don't know yet how that is supposed to end, but they REALLY should have put in some kind of alternate plot path for assassination.  I mean the player attempting to kill them isn't even a stretch, in fact, it may even seem the obvious solution to some stealthy assassin types.

[burningpet]

Any one knows of a fix to that flickering shadow glitch?

[Neonivek]

Some Quests would be uttarly impossible if NPCs were mortal.

Well ok... Only one quest that I got to play.

[SP2]

Which is why I cannot wait for the CK to be released. In Oblivion, there was a mod which made every single NPC mortal/killable. That warm feeling you get when you stroll into a pile of bodies in the center of the Imperial City...

[mendonca]

Poor Game-devs, always getting unfairly labelled as lazy 

I agree killing Ulfric is far from an edge case, but they do have to draw the line somewhere (if they ever want to release a game) and I think making certain NPCs unkillable is a reasonable decision. Where that line is drawn is fertile grounds for discussion, but it does have to be drawn. Given that Ulfric is (presumably?) such a key figure in the wider plot, it is probably difficult to allow him to be 'offed' at any given point - and still successfully branch the story to cater for an Ulfric-free world.

If a player wants to allow this to happen, and the main questline to suffer appropriately, well that is perfect mod material. A 'normal' player might not appreciate the visible seams.