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Author Topic: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual  (Read 17566 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2011, 12:49:08 am »

I thought that Pseudo-intellectual meant something that appears deep and thought out but it really is just a possition where you don't have to think.

Either way "Elitist" and "Pseudo-intellectual" are not the same thing.

Please stop putting what you hate about certain intellectuals/individuals as the definition of what eliminates them from being intellectuals. It just makes you seem vindacative, except spelled correctly.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 12:53:08 am by Neonivek »
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Max White

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2011, 12:56:20 am »

except spelled correctly.
Was that directed at me?
Sorry, had to go without a spell checker for a while now, so when I'm tired there is no good English.

Neonivek

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2011, 12:58:16 am »

except spelled correctly.
Was that directed at me?
Sorry, had to go without a spell checker for a while now, so when I'm tired there is no good English.

No it was dirrected at me who hopefully hopes that the speach above means he spelt vindacative correctly!
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Interus

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2011, 01:14:29 am »

except spelled correctly.
Was that directed at me?
Sorry, had to go without a spell checker for a while now, so when I'm tired there is no good English.

No it was dirrected at me who hopefully hopes that the speach above means he spelt vindacative correctly!

Nope, vindictive.  Speech too.  And directed, though that could have been a typo.  And firefox is saying spelt is wrong, but that's how I'd spell it since I don't like "spelled."  Don't mind me, I'm not being mean or anything, just trying to help you in the future.

I would say a psuedo-intellectual would include people who try to use words and sayings they don't understand, but that's just me being mad at my last boss for saying "irregardless" and "I could care less" all the time, and those are already well established pet peeves.

I'm not sure I can say what an intellectual is without purposefully using myself as an example to make me feel better.
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Grakelin

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2011, 02:11:59 am »

I used the term pseudointellectuals in a thread earlier today to refer to individuals I remember from high school who did precisely what is mentioned here: pretended to be intelligent to gain social standing. They were frighteningly obssessed with seeming to be the smartest people in the room, or at least amongst that number. One guy I knew would read through dictionary.com and memorize the longest words so he could use them in day to day conversation, but he was somewhat weak when it came to explaining his beliefs and why he held them. Another man read Nietczhe but refused to observe any other philosophers, choosing instead to take Nietczhe at face value and immediately adopt a hedonist attitude to everything. They often held a lot of scorn towards people in the classroom setting who did not immediately recognize a concept, and delighted in being able to work out the 'correct' answer. Yet, their 'correct' answers were rarely backed up with any evidence, and in the few instances where a teacher (or a student, when the teacher was particularly inept) called them out on something that was untrue, they would refuse to let their viewpoint be altered, even going so far as to declare direct proof against their claims as being invalid for one reason or another (even when it wasn't).

These are all traps an intellectual can fall into, of course, but I think what prevents a person from being one is the study. An intellectual will allow what he believes to be altered through research. He may develop some intense theory he really likes, but he will go out and try to find out if it has been suggested before and if it is sometimes true. I often use the phrase "Read a book" around here whenever I stumble across a heated argument about something which could easily be solved by one or both parties just looking up what they are talking about and providing a link. That's what an intellectual does. An intellectual tries to prove what they are saying by observing things and seeing what other people have observed. They will usually have at least some level of respect for people who dedicate their entire lives to studying the question at hand. If he turns out to have been wrong about something, he will correct his belief system so that it is as close to the truth as is possible. A pseudointellectual will tell the expert that he must have made errors somewhere, and continue lying to themselves about the facts because it would hurt their pride too much to admit they were every wrong, even if it just to themselves.


I see less pseudointellectuals in the university social structure than I did in high school, probably because there are people studying and learning things for real everywhere. Generally I've found that when people act like a pseudointellectual, it's about a discipline that is not their own, which is why I often poke fun at Math students but avoid actually discussing advanced mathematics whenever I can. I'm in the Drama program, though, so every so often I'll meet somebody who's trying to become famous and has no real interest in the art, but will spout wild nonsense in an effort to seem smarter than they are. I think that's a pseudointellectual quality, too.

I knew a few girls in high school who attached themselves to me because I had a reputation for being well read and articulate, as well. I think they were also pseudointellectuals, even the ones who didn't actively gloat about their intelligence, because they were trying to get in on some intellectual elite. If intelligent people actually get to be in some sort of special elite society, however, I'm afraid I'll have to concede to not being an intelligent person. My social class still seems to be pegged down to the socio-economic status of my parents and my efforts towards attaining a university degree. I haven't received a single boon for reading Aristotle's Poetics or going through an Ayn Rand publication to see what she's really about (just as bad as people say, actually). I've literally had to make do with expanding my knowledge and thinking about new things.

Though, it's true that the impressionable among us seem to get overly impressed when they hear about books or authours you've read. I think people who don't read these sorts of materials often just find it exotic. One intelligent person in their mid-twenties was exceedingly impressed when they saw that I had read most of Tennessee William's famous plays, and seemed to think that I was quite clever for having done so. Maybe that's what the draw is for the pseudointellectual - getting people to praise you.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Reelyanoob

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2011, 02:26:55 am »

I never pictured you as an Anon fan, Vector.  :P
Next thing you will be telling me your part of lulzsec.

*shrug*

He worked as a labor historian for a while, and he raised me chanting "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, Ho Chi Minh is gonna win" >_>

So, uh, yeah... it's not about being an Anon fan, it's about it being a subset of the category of movies about defeating Fascism, by whatever means necessary.  It's not about the idea of Anon, it's about whether they've found a worthy target or are just causing a ruckus to no purpose.

You're not a "Pseudo" Vector because you're talking in understandable terminology.

Quote
    pseudointellectual
Created solely as an attempt to display the author's intellectual prowess though actually void of real pith; intellectualism as style rather than substance. Often relies on heavy name dropping and erudite, obscure terminology instead of easily understood, common words.

Basically describes many of the "art critic" community. If you can comprehend their b-s terminology they are not doing their job right :) and will need to bury you deeper in crap. This is really what it's about. Buzz-words and incomprehensibility (so they and their follower can feel "special"). Socialists, while you might disagree with them, at least try and communicate their ideas with the purpose of spreading their ideas. They try to be understandable. Pseudo-intellectuals can be right or left wing, the goal is to create a closed-space where only a select few can understand the jargon.

They tend to show disdain for those studying hard science and mathematics / computing. i.e. they smear those working in fields where actually knowing what you are talking about is important, because they cannot comprehend it themselves, but want to be seen as "superior" intellects.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 02:33:02 am by Reelyanoob »
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Grakelin

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2011, 02:32:58 am »

They tend to show disdain for those studying hard science and mathematics / computing. i.e. they smear those working in fields where actually knowing what you are talking about is important, because they cannot comprehend it themselves, but want to be seen as "superior" intellects.

Yet the disciplines of science and mathematics don't seem to have any more shortage of pseudointellectuals than the arts do.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Grimshot

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2011, 02:35:50 am »

 I would say that an intellectual would be a person highly involved in academia and thus knowledgeable. That would make make pseudo-intellectuals people who try to emulate being knowledgeable without actually having a solid grasp on the subjects they talk about. As for my opinion, I think anyone who doesn't know what they are talking about should keep their mouth shut.
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Vector

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2011, 02:38:24 am »

Yet the disciplines of science and mathematics don't seem to have any more shortage of pseudointellectuals than the arts do.

Yeah.  Trust me, the math department has about a billion pseudo-intellectual douchebags.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Grakelin

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2011, 02:40:20 am »

I actually disagree somewhat with you, Grimshot. Intellectuals should, by definition, have something to teach us that we don't already know. Since the point of their existence is not to tell us how smart they are, they need coaxing. Sometimes trolling somebody about their field of study will be enough to goad them into telling you all sorts of interesting things, and often times they will tell you where you can find out more.

Though, spreading misinformation to everybody you possibly can is a dangerous thing.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Neonivek

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2011, 02:45:49 am »

This is a weird conversation as it isn't minor points people are disagreeing on.

We have ENTIRELY different categories on what an intellectual even is.

I mean... Is it something you attempt to be? Is it something you are? is it a state of knowing? Is it not being a jerk?
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Reelyanoob

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2011, 02:51:53 am »

@Neonivek: Interesting point: I was thinking along similiar lines myself. There's no definitive answer (see below).

Yet the disciplines of science and mathematics don't seem to have any more shortage of pseudointellectuals than the arts do.

Yeah.  Trust me, the math department has about a billion pseudo-intellectual douchebags.

Seems to me you can be a real intellectual in one field, and a pseudo-intellectual in others, if you've studied one area but believe you know best in every area whether or not you've studied it.

But postmodern / art-criticism takes the cake, they really do, maybe you haven't read enough post-modern art-criticism to be aware how loony that stuff is. They don't even attempt to make sense, at all. And if you, as an outsider, can comprehend it, they'll rephrase it twice as loony as before.

I had a link a while ago to a really great piece of "art-criticism" which was incomprehensible, but almost as good is this kind of thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Quote
The Sokal affair, also known as the Sokal hoax,[1] was a publishing hoax perpetrated by Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University. In 1996, Sokal submitted an article to Social Text, an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies. The submission was an experiment to test the publication's intellectual rigor and, specifically, to learn if such a journal would "publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if it (a) sounded good and (b) flattered the editors' ideological preconceptions."[2]

The article "Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity", published in the Social Text Spring/Summer 1996 "Science Wars" issue, proposed that quantum gravity is a social and linguistic construct. At that time, the journal did not practice academic peer review and did not submit the article for outside expert review by a physicist.[3][4] The journal's editorial collective did, however, express concerns to Sokal about the piece, and requested changes, which Sokal refused to make. Wishing to include the work of a physicist, the editors decided to accept the article on the basis of Sokal's credentials. On its date of publication (May 1996), Sokal revealed in Lingua Franca that the article was a hoax, identifying it as "a pastiche of Left-wing cant, fawning references, grandiose quotations, and outright nonsense . . . structured around the silliest quotations [by postmodernist academics] he could find about mathematics and physics".[2]
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Vector

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2011, 02:55:49 am »

Postmodernism?

Hon, my other major is rhetoric =)  I hit the nonsense from both sides, head-on.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Grakelin

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2011, 02:58:12 am »

Art critisism is a legitimate and academically recognized way of analyzing an artform, though. The difficulty you have probably had with it is that there is a tendency to use jargon. It's a theatre academic thing, apparently - I'm reading Barker right now, who has written several plays which went relatively mainstream, and I often have to reread paragraphs in his Arguments for a Theatre six or seven times before I can figure out what he's saying. The grammar structure trips me up sometimes, too.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

PsyberianHusky

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Re: Intellectual vs. Pseudointellectual
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2011, 03:10:48 am »

Give me an example of each; Who(in terms of well known figures) is an intellectual and who is a "pseudo".
I ain't sure if I am going anywhere with this yet, but drop me some names.
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