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Yes, they are an easy means of getting legendary dwarves.

91 (32.7%)

No, it's in the game and no one says you have to use it.

54 (19.4%)

Who cares play however you want.

133 (47.8%)

Total Members Voted: 274

Voting closed: August 13, 2011, 06:26:01 pm

[zilpin]

No.


They are a natural result of the game mechanics.
If you consider them a problem, ask Toady to improve the mechanics, not to make some buggy hack to "fix" danger rooms.
I say the same thing about the old channel command vs the new.

Stupid Dwarf Tricks are all part of the character of DF.

[alesia]

My only complaint with danger rooms is that they work a little too quickly - dabbling to legendary should take a month of spear dodging, not three days - but it's a very dwarfy way to learn combat skills.

Another 'advantage' to the danger room is that I have lost dwarves to infection, a fair way of weeding out the idiots who can't figure out how to wear a gauntlet on each hand.  (That'll teach you, Olon! ... oh wait ...)

[Krelos]

After that one time I set up a bunch of 4 dwarf squads, trained them all "normally" for 6+ years, got them outfitted with masterwork steel and mithril armor/weapons, and then sent them out and watched them die like naked kittens... no, definitely not an exploit.
If Toady "fixes" it without also fixing "legit" training, I'll just use Runesmith to train them.

I've got this internal "suspension of disbelief" meter that prevents me from doing things that break my own sense of immersion. So I don't use atomsmashers for defense, build repeating ceiling-collapse traps, or let dwarves learn nothing from 6 years of training.

[Sandrew]

If Toady "fixes" it without also fixing "legit" training, I'll just use Runesmith to train them.

So I don't let dwarves learn nothing from 6 years of training.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I sent my six dwarfs out against a tripple Fortress Defense siege clad in iron (because I thought steel would be too overpowered, I have since then come back from that viewpoint)and they obliterated it, taking two casualties in the process, one of which was a master swordman (go figure haha). The most recent siege only cost me a single, very inexperienced, soldier. My fort is currently in its third year, meaning my troops can't have had more than two years of training total.

[Mushroo]

You're definitely doing something wrong. I'm 3 years into a new fort and my 4-dwarf army has goblin limbs flying every which way, no danger rooms necessary. There have been a few broken bones but no dwarf fatalities.

[franti]

I sent ten Adept Speardwarves armoured MOSTLY in Copper, and in Brass I modded in because I had NOTHING else, out against a dozen or so Human Swordsmen, and won with a few major injuries, but no deaths.

[Urist McUristy]

Actually, you can set up a danger room that only uses 6 rocks and 10 wood and guarantees that all soldiers get trained consistently, plus 2 wood for each soldier for his weapon of choice and wooden shield. Its a fairly good investment that would be better than most traps, as a good soldier doesn't need armor and is unlikely to get hit. Then just add 1 unit of metal for said weapon of choice later and keep the wooden shield, as material of shield doesn't matter. Here is a picture of my more efficient design.
*pic*
As you can see, this makes the input way more smaller, in size AND resources, and can be built quickly, anywhere, because of its insanely small size.
This is probably more efficient than most traps, as you have to dig more tiles out for the trap, while with this design you only need 4 tiles.

EDIT: I think that I'm the first to make this design, atleast public... I declare this to be an McUristy Danger Room!

I have tried this design in the past, but it would always eventually happen that my soldier wouldn't recognize the danger room due to the door being being locked and they would stop training. So I have been forced to put my armor stand in the danger room and put more weapon traps once I had the wood available.
And you would eventually have to add armor to the dwarves. Even if they are Legendary+5 in dodging and shield, if they have a full siege of goblins attacking them they will get hit sooner or later. Without armor this hit will always be fatal. Using an army has the added disadvantage of having several dwarves that are always useless except during attacks. If you use trap corridors or other defenses you will still have those dwarves free to do whatever you want and you won't risk any of them being hurt or dying. You won't risk any children or animals wandering into the danger rooms either and having your fortress wiped out by tantruming soldiers.

Well of course your going to eventually need armor, but to quickly get a starting army up and running that can properly defend, you don't. And later on, most of your dwarfs are uselsss, during attacks and every other time.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Actually, you can set up a danger room that only uses 6 rocks and 10 wood and guarantees that all soldiers get trained consistently, plus 2 wood for each soldier for his weapon of choice and wooden shield. Its a fairly good investment that would be better than most traps, as a good soldier doesn't need armor and is unlikely to get hit. Then just add 1 unit of metal for said weapon of choice later and keep the wooden shield, as material of shield doesn't matter. Here is a picture of my more efficient design.
*pic*
As you can see, this makes the input way more smaller, in size AND resources, and can be built quickly, anywhere, because of its insanely small size.
This is probably more efficient than most traps, as you have to dig more tiles out for the trap, while with this design you only need 4 tiles.

EDIT: I think that I'm the first to make this design, atleast public... I declare this to be an McUristy Danger Room!

I have tried this design in the past, but it would always eventually happen that my soldier wouldn't recognize the danger room due to the door being being locked and they would stop training. So I have been forced to put my armor stand in the danger room and put more weapon traps once I had the wood available.
And you would eventually have to add armor to the dwarves. Even if they are Legendary+5 in dodging and shield, if they have a full siege of goblins attacking them they will get hit sooner or later. Without armor this hit will always be fatal. Using an army has the added disadvantage of having several dwarves that are always useless except during attacks. If you use trap corridors or other defenses you will still have those dwarves free to do whatever you want and you won't risk any of them being hurt or dying. You won't risk any children or animals wandering into the danger rooms either and having your fortress wiped out by tantruming soldiers.

Well of course your going to eventually need armor, but to quickly get a starting army up and running that can properly defend, you don't. And later on, most of your dwarfs are uselsss, during attacks and every other time.

I don't understand this.

For one thing, it's essential to save military lives, because experienced militia are the ones that train your other dwarves.  I could see how it wouldn't matter if you use a danger room, but it prompts the question, are people thinking danger rooms are necessary because they don't realize how important it is to protect the lives of good fighters?  I make armor a priority, to the extent of bringing bronze on embark, and at least one proficient armorsmith on every embark.  Armor makes a huge difference in military survivability.

The other thing I don't get is the idea that military dwarves are useless when there's nothing to kill.  The only dwarves that I allow to be non-military are my miner, woodcutter, and medical dwarf (yes, 1 of each is fine for me, even in a full fort).  Yet I still get things done.  One of the cool things about recent versions of DF is, in fact, that military dwarves are not useless.  It's very simple to have dwarves that serve both in the military and civilian life.

[krenshala]

Early on, the armoring of your dwarves isn't as important as getting them weapons, a shield, and six months or more of training in their use.  By the second dwarven caravan, however, you really should be getting your troops at least a mail shirt, helm, boots and gauntlets/gloves.

I'm very curious to know what set up you used when you "trained" your militia for six years without providing them any skill gain?  Even when I didn't know what I was doing with military setup I was able to get my dwarves trained to at least Competent in their weapon long before they had completed a year of drill (that was back when the entire unit of 10 would take a break because one guy was thirsty).

Are there people still not using 0.31.25?  Thats the only reason I can think of for the different in training behavior experienced by differing players.  With the latest version, three years of training means guaranteed Champions.

[ZhangC1459]

it's an exploit only in the sense that it abuses flawed game mechanics.  I mean, if you did something like that in real life I'm sure you could learn how to dodge the fuck out of spears and where to let stuff hit you so your armor/shield deflects it with minimal impact, but you'd also probably die from fucking up.

Or maybe I've just been playing too much DF (seriously, I dream in graphics packs and ASCII now)

[jellsprout]

I sent ten Adept Speardwarves armoured MOSTLY in Copper, and in Brass I modded in because I had NOTHING else, out against a dozen or so Human Swordsmen, and won with a few major injuries, but no deaths.

Just wait until you get stuck between several squads of goblins with crossbows and scourges. Dwarves armored in better quality than whatever the invaders use are impervious against edged weapons. So if you got major injuries now, imagine the slaughter when you get sieged by 60 or so humans.

Out of all the fortresses I have created in the past, my least challenging was probably one where I worked purely on the glass industry after the properties of glass got fixed. Everything I created had to be made out glass and everything that couldn't be made out of glass had to be encrusted with cut glass. Whenever I had nothing to produce I would simply produce serrated glass discs and build more weapon traps at my entrance. No goblin would survive more than 3 steps into the trap corridor. All I had to do was order my dwarves inside and watch goblin pieces fly everywhere. When compared to such overpowered and effortless features, danger rooms really are not that great.

[Buttery_Mess]

Yeah, it is cheating. You can run a fort without resorting to danger rooms IF you also use canny defensive structures. If you don't use either, neither will work. I also tend to think traps are a bit cheaty, if you go overboard with them they make sieges no fun at all.

[Reudh]

Personally, I don't consider them an exploit- they're a valid use of game mechanics, just as cannons in Minecraft are. They do detract from the game a bit though, but as i'm a relative newbie to DF i use them on ONE squad and ONE squad alone.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Early on, the armoring of your dwarves isn't as important as getting them weapons, a shield, and six months or more of training in their use.  By the second dwarven caravan, however, you really should be getting your troops at least a mail shirt, helm, boots and gauntlets/gloves.

I'm very curious to know what set up you used when you "trained" your militia for six years without providing them any skill gain?  Even when I didn't know what I was doing with military setup I was able to get my dwarves trained to at least Competent in their weapon long before they had completed a year of drill (that was back when the entire unit of 10 would take a break because one guy was thirsty).

Are there people still not using 0.31.25?  Thats the only reason I can think of for the different in training behavior experienced by differing players.  With the latest version, three years of training means guaranteed Champions.

I think if your barracks is far away from the rest of your fort it can mean some real problems and delays.

At what point to people move their dudes from small squads into ten-man squads? I'd like to consolidate if possible.

[franti]

Early on, the armoring of your dwarves isn't as important as getting them weapons, a shield, and six months or more of training in their use.  By the second dwarven caravan, however, you really should be getting your troops at least a mail shirt, helm, boots and gauntlets/gloves.

I'm very curious to know what set up you used when you "trained" your militia for six years without providing them any skill gain?  Even when I didn't know what I was doing with military setup I was able to get my dwarves trained to at least Competent in their weapon long before they had completed a year of drill (that was back when the entire unit of 10 would take a break because one guy was thirsty).

Are there people still not using 0.31.25?  Thats the only reason I can think of for the different in training behavior experienced by differing players.  With the latest version, three years of training means guaranteed Champions.

I think if your barracks is far away from the rest of your fort it can mean some real problems and delays.

At what point to people move their dudes from small squads into ten-man squads? I'd like to consolidate if possible.

5 is the max size for me, although I put every dwarf in a squad with a shield and spear as a uniform so they can carry around weapons.