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Yes, they are an easy means of getting legendary dwarves.

91 (32.7%)

No, it's in the game and no one says you have to use it.

54 (19.4%)

Who cares play however you want.

133 (47.8%)

Total Members Voted: 274

Voting closed: August 13, 2011, 06:26:01 pm

[TomIrony]

I've yet to make a danger room that doesn't break all the bones of my dorfs, which is far more hilarious than making one that works properly. So really, it all depends on you. Can you really cheat in a game that has no "win" condition?

[Lexx]

I just think that they are far to easy to set up for the amazing returns they give you. Live target training and proper use of schedules/training can get the job done and be much more entertaining.

[ullrich]

To those saying military can be trained decently in a year or two that is the case only rarely and if your lucky and you DO NOT USE size 10 squads, if I set up a squad I want it to be 10, and if you do that, normal training stagnates to the point where sometimes dwarves skills rust faster than they are trained, and that is the huge reason why the current training system is fundamentally flawed.

It should not be possible for a squad that trains 12 months a year to come out with lower skills then they started with but it can happen (extreme case of unlucky in comparison to those that say they can train in 2 years with random dwarves).

For the most part I survive without a military other than marksmen (since they train decently via hunting and normal training) by setting up a big moat with a drawbridge(that is raised 90% of the time), and if need be I'll wall off the entry way, for the first 5 or so years, I'll also have some dwarves training without a danger room during this time, rarely do they get past skill 3 in any combat skill regardless of how qualified a leader I pick for them, at that point I normally say screw it and make a danger room.

[Mushroo]

To those saying military can be trained decently in a year or two that is the case only rarely and if your lucky and you DO NOT USE size 10 squads, if I set up a squad I want it to be 10, and if you do that, normal training stagnates to the point where sometimes dwarves skills rust faster than they are trained, and that is the huge reason why the current training system is fundamentally flawed.

Why do you train in squads of 10 when you know it is less effective? Set your novice fighters to train 1-on-1 with more experienced teachers in squads of 2 or 3; they will spar and gain experience quickly. Once the students are well-trained, split them into leading their own squads, and recruit a new batch of apprentices.

Military training is not flawed, it's just somewhat uneven in training rate, so you need to use trial-and-error (or research on these forums and the wiki) to find an optimal training rate that is Fun for you.

[billybobfred]

Yes, they are an exploit.

I'm perfectly 0kay with using exploits, though.

[lanceleoghauni]

Using a danger room to train doctors seems way less exploity. That's about all I'd use it for.

[ullrich]

Why do you train in squads of 10 when you know it is less effective?

Because I shouldn't have to micro manage 20 squads just so I can have the equivalent of what should be accomplished in 1-2 squads, compounded with the fact you can't give squads names/nicknames nor assign them via dwarf therapist it makes it both slow and messy (when giving orders).

It is a flaw in the system, that 2 man squads can train well but 10 man squads almost can't train at all, it means that the activities performed more often in 10 man squads should yield more experience (e.g. dodging demonstration) also it makes little sense that you learn more fighting the same opponent over and over then you would fighting 9 different opponents.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

My ten-dwarf squads train productively.  It's not how I started training, because I didn't have ten dwarves to spare to begin with, but many, many dwarves of mine have achieved legendary+ in full squads.

[Urist McUristy]

Exploits, bugs, cheats, unintended features, all are meaningless terms in any game, both single player and multi player. There is no International League of Video Game Scrubs which decides exactly what techniques are "fair" and which are "cheap". If it is possible in the game without hacks or 3rd party mods and you have no additional rules set up before the game starts, anything is fair game. If you avoid anything that you deem "cheap" you are only limiting yourself and will never be able to enjoy the game to its fullest.
It is not as if the developers want you to avoid any of these "exploits" either. The best example being combos in Street Fighter. They were an unintended feature in Street Fighter II. But instead of whining that the people who used combos were ruining the game, as several of you appear to think developers do in such a situation, they noticed the potential in such a feature and continued to put combos in their future games. You are not the developer and if you think you know how they want you to play the game, you are being ignorant.

But I don't understand why people keep singling out Danger Rooms. Danger Rooms make the game easier, yes, but they are not the easiest defense by far. An optimal Danger Room requires you to use ten training spears for each tile. That means you have to use 10 units of wood for each tile, as well two units of stone for the mechanisms and another unit of wood, stone or metal to assign the barracks and one unit of stone to make the lever. Because you need wood to make beds, charcoal and lye, wood is one of your most precious recourses early in the game. You also need to use 6 to 8 units of metal per soldier to create the equipment. It is a waste to use about 100 wood and 40 metal this early in the game, not to mention all the time your dwarves have to waste to set up this entire thing.
There are many far more efficient defenses, such as trap corridors, cage corridors, atom smashers, single tile wide bridges with weapon traps/menacing spike traps on them, hunters, drowning traps, freezing traps, cave in traps, retracting bridges over pits or simply even sealing off your entrance. If you look at the input/return, using an army trained in a Danger Room is one of the less efficient ways to protect your fortress. It is only a good idea if you plan to take on the HFS. And even then a corridor filled with menacing spikes on repeat is far more effective.

Actually, you can set up a danger room that only uses 6 rocks and 10 wood and guarantees that all soldiers get trained consistently, plus 2 wood for each soldier for his weapon of choice and wooden shield. Its a fairly good investment that would be better than most traps, as a good soldier doesn't need armor and is unlikely to get hit. Then just add 1 unit of metal for said weapon of choice later and keep the wooden shield, as material of shield doesn't matter. Here is a picture of my more efficient design.

As you can see, this makes the input way more smaller, in size AND resources, and can be built quickly, anywhere, because of its insanely small size.
This is probably more efficient than most traps, as you have to dig more tiles out for the trap, while with this design you only need 4 tiles.

EDIT: I think that I'm the first to make this design, atleast public... I declare this to be an McUristy Danger Room!

[Lagslayer]

@Urist McUristy

If this is your first time mentioning the design, then I am afraid that I beat you to the punch by a few months. I've mentioned the design on the forums several times.

[Crazy Cow]

"Do you think Danger Rooms are an Exploit?"


And no, I don't. Other methods of training, while not as "cheat-y," do not gain skills nearly fast enough, and therefore result in dead soldiers.

@Urist McUristy
I was thinking of micro-danger rooms, as well, and this was my strategy. Dig out a 1x4 tile hall, looking like this:

Code: [Select]

OOOOO
....O
OOOOO

Insert spear trap, door, and weapon rack.

Code: [Select]

OOOOO
+|.rO
OOOOO

Then, build a wall in front of the barracks.

Code: [Select]

OOOOO
+|OrO
OOOOO

This way, the room includes the trap, but nothing else. However, yours is much simpler. Thanks for sharing!

[CT]

yes...an i be from the south so we get an and a confused during speech (at least where I'm from)

[Vodrilus]

YES!
However, I find danger rooms incredibly dwarfy due to the mental images that they conjure.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The equivalent of bending over to pick up the soap.
Also, MS Paint.

[jellsprout]

Actually, you can set up a danger room that only uses 6 rocks and 10 wood and guarantees that all soldiers get trained consistently, plus 2 wood for each soldier for his weapon of choice and wooden shield. Its a fairly good investment that would be better than most traps, as a good soldier doesn't need armor and is unlikely to get hit. Then just add 1 unit of metal for said weapon of choice later and keep the wooden shield, as material of shield doesn't matter. Here is a picture of my more efficient design.
*pic*
As you can see, this makes the input way more smaller, in size AND resources, and can be built quickly, anywhere, because of its insanely small size.
This is probably more efficient than most traps, as you have to dig more tiles out for the trap, while with this design you only need 4 tiles.

EDIT: I think that I'm the first to make this design, atleast public... I declare this to be an McUristy Danger Room!

I have tried this design in the past, but it would always eventually happen that my soldier wouldn't recognize the danger room due to the door being being locked and they would stop training. So I have been forced to put my armor stand in the danger room and put more weapon traps once I had the wood available.
And you would eventually have to add armor to the dwarves. Even if they are Legendary+5 in dodging and shield, if they have a full siege of goblins attacking them they will get hit sooner or later. Without armor this hit will always be fatal. Using an army has the added disadvantage of having several dwarves that are always useless except during attacks. If you use trap corridors or other defenses you will still have those dwarves free to do whatever you want and you won't risk any of them being hurt or dying. You won't risk any children or animals wandering into the danger rooms either and having your fortress wiped out by tantruming soldiers.

[Kay12]

Exploit? Hell yes. But I don't consider their use condemnable in any way - if a player wants to use them, fine with me. Personally I don't - mostly because I don't even use a military in my current fort, and their role is quite ceremonial anyway.