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[Wurgel]

you want a "save" cheaty way to set up the trap? turn tempreture off. that should stop the secret from boiling.

and the the gas-champer: how far does the gas move? an easy layout would be:

XXXXXX
D_FGCX
XXXXXX

D=Door (or a raising bridge to ensure, that lockpicer/buildingdestoyer cant escape.)
_ = normal floor. your chamber. size based on the spreading of the gas. prefered with a Hatch on top of it to drop the victims inside.
F=Fortification to let the gas in but prevent the targets from moving into the cage-room
G= Floodgate/door/bridge. whatever you wanna taky to control the flow of gas. (linked to the same levler as the hatch, so that the chamber is sealed, when the Gas flows in)
C= Cage with our little friend
x= wall.

After the gas killed the targets, you can cut off the gas and move the bodies through the door.

[crekit]

...

You'd better weaponize this. Seriously.

Make a noble drag the cage, or a legondary weaponsmith for boozes sake. Think of it as his final weapon, a true artifact.

This is a artifact FB gas chamber. All of craftdorfship is of the highest quality. On the item is a picture of cheese. It is adorned with spikes of win, hanging with rings of elf pain.

[Teneb]

This must be weaponized. It is the dwarfy way.

And, as said before, you if don't want to move it, build your trap around it.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Magma will surely fix it, but if Magma isn't easily available...


1) Build a support next to the cage...

Magma-safe cage.  Hell, fire demon safe cage.  That's what I was trapping for, just thought I'd grab a few FB when I was done.

The support's a good idea of how to do it without dwarven deaths, if that's what I decide.  Curious though, don't boiling liquids rise?  I think the miner would probably get hit with the syndrome.

Make it into an execution gas chamber. You said it takes too long to kick in for a siege, so don't rely on it during siege time. Build lots of cage traps and once the siege is over, shove the prisoners into the gas chamber. Uh... you may want to find some way to clear teh corpses so you don't end up with endless miasma killing fps. Is that cage magma-proof?

That is a good idea...  Right now, I'm kind of short on prisoners, because I don't really like cage traps but I like experimentation.  It's true that it's too much of a pain to disarm and kill prisoners, and this would serve that purpose nicely....  Of course, magma would work fine for that too.  Yeah, I could clean the area with magma, cage is adam.  Would need a hell of a pump stack, but that's on the eventual to-do list anyways.

why must you move the cage? just dig all around were it's left, place stairs which lead to the surface from there, and then wall everything in aroudn the cage, remember to leave a "door" so enemies will path through it. (make the door really far, and BEFORE it, place a couple floodgates, so building destroyers will destroy those andn ot the door.
Then wait for enemies to path through that opening into a gassy chamber of doom.

That's a good point.  It'd leave the cage level awfully inelegant-looking, but I'm in the process of rebuilding everything anyways-- I could rebuild that whole level into a labyrinth, to get some time for the syndrome to work.  It'd be a very long-term project....

I think the way to do it would be one of those one-way hatches on the dwarven side, close to the cage, over a channel with a civs-trigger pressure plate-- that ought to keep dwarves from pathing through the cage area, unless what they're pathing to is directly in the FB's smoke.  Then, during siege, it's just close one entrance, open the other....

NOTE: Water covering only prevents contaminants sticking in a dwarf's inventory, they may receive some temporary syndrome effects. Better make that two decon ditches.

Actually, one of the interesting parts of the boiling secretions is that they don't leave any contaminants-- it must adhere for half a frame, cause the syndrome, then boil away.

you want a "save" cheaty way to set up the trap? turn tempreture off. that should stop the secret from boiling.

and the the gas-champer: how far does the gas move? an easy layout would be:

Actually, temperature IS off.  Makes me wonder if I should turn it on and see what happens....

The gas flows sometimes 1 square away from cage (so 3x3 square, or cube?) and sometimes 2 squares away (5x5).  I'm not sure if it would still kill at 2 squares away.  That is a good layout for a gas chamber, but I think the range is too far, and it would involve a lot of deaths   One thing I could consider is that since the cage doesn't even need to be built, I could actually just drop it onto a fortification and it could exist in the same space.  But the fortification isn't necessary except in case of gremlins anyways.

Think I'll do a little experimentation with temperature and goblin mortality.  Thanks for all the thoughts!

[Puresowns]

So if temperature is off and it is still boiling, does that mean it boils at or under room temp? If so turning temperature back on will only stop the boiling if the cage was put above ground in a cold biome. Assuming it doesn't boil at some insanely low temp.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Well, even if temperature was on, it wouldn't boil unless it boiled under room temp.

Turning temperature on doesn't change it's boiling properties-- still acts the same.  (Turning temperature on did start a mysterious fire though...)

It's kind of a shame that it boils at such a low temperature.  I've got some creatures with tremendously high homeotherms (25000) that I've been trying to figure out how to use, and maybe I could make a toggleable boiling extract trap using one of them....  I'll see if I have any other noxious secreters around!

Edit: Goblin Tests:

Asno Ostakudo, naked Goblin Bowman.  First comes into contact with boiling FB extract at step=0.  He crosses the cage to the other side, then crosses again at about 16 steps (~160 ticks).
At ~50 steps (~500 ticks) he becomes dizzy.  His movements become erratic, hesitant, and slow.  After this, there is no relationship between tick and step.
At ~90 steps I notice that everything he has is blistered.  This may have occured earlier, as I hadn't looked previously.
At ~150 steps he is no longer dizzy.  His movements return to normal.
At ~650 steps he is still blistered, but no further problems.  I look away to deal with a minotaur problem.  It is 17 Limestone.

On 20 Limestone, Asno becomes winded, and although his z-screen shows no change (everything blistered), suddenly his wound screen shows yellow wounds on all body parts.  He takes fifteen unsteady steps and dies.

Overall guess at about 1000 goblin steps between contact and death. That's about 5 trips across the screen on my 4x4.  Long, but doable.  I'll try a troll next.

[Wayward Device]

At ~50 steps (~500 ticks) he becomes dizzy.  His movements become erratic, hesitant, and slow.  After this, there is no relationship between tick and step.

I think this means that you have to go with the labyrinth. I mean think about it. You've got this toxin that will make them wander about dizzily (probably experiencing  hideous Lovecraftian fever dreams) before suffocating, not to mention the blisters. Build the labyrinth, engrave it and cull till you have images of horrible death etc. Set up the cage (secured as you like) at the entrance and have a bait animal chained way back. Sieges and the like will come in, get sprayed, keep pathing to the bait animal and then start to wander around, bump into things, be traumatized by your disturbed engravings and then die a confused death. Of course this hinges on whether I'm interpreting what you said about the dizziness right, that they stagger around randomly. Also, if you go with the labyrinth it will be really easy to gather all the equipment after the siege as the extract will have boiled away and it'll be safe to handle. Damn, this thread really makes me want to catch one of these now.

Btw, can the fire creatures you captures fly? cos if not, you should give some consideration to building the dwarfiest waste disposal furnace/ execution pit ever. IIRC anything made of fire (at 25000 urists no less) will melt even steel by being next to it. So much cooler than an atom smasher.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Sieges and the like will come in, get sprayed, keep pathing to the bait animal and then start to wander around, bump into things, be traumatized by your disturbed engravings and then die a confused death. Of course this hinges on whether I'm interpreting what you said about the dizziness right, that they stagger around randomly.

It's hard to be sure about the way they move when dizzy, because there's no path to anything in their enclosure; they're wandering around randomly even before exposure.  But the dizziness does seem to slow them, and maybe even make their movements more random-- a lot more hesitation, and whereas they'd previously take five or six steps before stopping and thinking, when dizzy, they only get 1 or 2 steps before stopping and thinking.

Btw, can the fire creatures you captures fly? cos if not, you should give some consideration to building the dwarfiest waste disposal furnace/ execution pit ever. IIRC anything made of fire (at 25000 urists no less) will melt even steel by being next to it. So much cooler than an atom smasher.

Alas, it can fly, and dfprobe shows regular temperature at the location of its cage   Good idea though.  I could maybe do it with a couple of bridges....  Could get dangerous though.  Doesn't enough melting steel eventually make a bar?  Wonder if I could make an automelt smelter out of it, that would be awesome.  Don't know if it would ever make more than one bar though, and it would be a lot of trouble to retrieve....  I wonder what the temperature directly above one would be?  Guess I'd have to turn temperature on and suffer through 10 fps....  Making blue flasks, quivers and backpacks now though, I have an irrational fear of fire   Wish I could figure out a way to bait those fire imps out of the magma, I love me some fire imp leather.  I'll probably start stockpiling nethercaps for shields too.

Nguslu, naked troll:

Nguslu comes into contact with boiling extract at step 0, 21 Sandstone.

At or before step 34, Nguslu is covered with his own pus.  He doesn't show any wounds or blisters.

At step 49, Nguslu gets dizzy.  No blisters or wounds.

At or before step 75, Nguslu is covered with blisters.

At around step 180 (some steps obscured by goblin corpse miasma) Nguslu is no longer dizzy. It is 26 Sandstone.

I look away.  When I look back, it is 27 Sandstone.  Nguslu is winded and all body parts are yellow or light brown, except internal organs, which are blue, and tusks, which are unharmed.  And I mean ALL body parts.  6 pages of wounds.  Nguslu takes 12 steps and expires.  It is still 27 Sandstone.

So it looks like about 6 days from exposure to death. That's even less than 1000 steps.  And size doesn't appear to slow the process.

[Matz05]

Cool. Looks like the Dwarven Biowar department doesn't have to wait for the interaction framework. But seriously, that stuff sounds nasty. Does a creature already completely covered in water/other harmless substances suffer the effects? Or is it an inhaled toxin?

[krenshala]

So it looks like about 6 days from exposure to death. That's even less than 1000 steps.  And size doesn't appear to slow the process.

Definitely a Level 4 Biohazard.

I say you build a labyrinth with floodgates operated by pressure plates in your hallways so the citizens are constantly changing the maze layout, releasing the beastie into the maze and using it to dump prisoners and entrap seiges.  Perhaps by having the maze be the landing spot for a Dodge Me trap hallway. 

[Nil Eyeglazed]

So I dug the syndrome out of the world.dat:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:POISON:CREATURE_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE][MELTING_POINT:9800][BOILING_POINT:9900][ENTERS_BLOOD][SYNDROME][SYN_NAME:beast sickness]#[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]-[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_693:ALL][SYN_INJECTED][SYN_CONTACT][SYN_INHALED]‚[CE_OOZING:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:100:PEAK:879:END:3543:BP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:ALL:VASCULAR_ONLY:MUSCULAR_ONLY:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS]][CE_PARALYSIS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:120:PEAK:1309:END:3519:LOCALIZED:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS]S[CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:543:PEAK:1771:END:4301:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS]x[CE_BLISTERS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:1097:PEAK:1379:END:4901:BP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:ALL:VASCULAR_ONLY:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS]?[SECRETION:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:POISON:GAS:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SCALE]

It looks like it's probably affecting creatures via inhalation, since it doesn't look like anybody's getting any kind of contamination from it.  It must be the localized paralysis that causes the eventual suffocation.  In my experience, contamination-based syndromes will affect a creature covered in water-- will even affect a creature if the contamination is instantly (same frame) washed away.  (That's from watching FB dust at the bottom of a 3/7 bathtub kill a barefooted miner.)

I haven't looked at any other secreting beasts, but all of the deadly dust has a boiling point of 10400, which isn't really that high.  If liquid/solid secreters follow that pattern, then you could probably do something similar but safer by caging a noxious secreter and putting it in a hot environment, that is, if the FB doesn't get killed by the hot environment.  Not sure how much a cage would protect against heat.

Re: releasing it in a maze: if I do that, eventually something will kill the FB.  That's what's cool about the way it is right now: while it's caged, it's totally invulnerable to attack, but can still kill stuff.

[Mazonas]

I agree with the labyrinth, but if it secretes in the cage anyway, just keep it caged.  Have your entrance setup so that during normal use dorfs can get in and out quickly, avoiding the labyrinth, but so that during sieges you can pull a lever or 2 and reroute the entrance through the labyrinth, past the cage.  Attacking enemies will automatically come through the area.

You WILL lose dorfs setting this up, so build the labyrinth first, then burrow all dwarves but the one sacrificial guy away from the area and send him to set the cage in place.  Bury him with something nice.

[LilGunmanX]

I'd recommend migrant laborers to move it into a pre-constructed room. Put a retractable bridge over the room and drop prisoners in through that or a hatch. Maybe you could use water to wash out the goblin corpses, since the cage will be so heavy that water won't move it, and then you could harvest their goblinite.

[shadenight123]

just...just marvelous. this is so like the T-virus, just, it's the FB-virus.
...and with necromancy...HAVE ZOMBIE DO IT! MWUAHUHAUAHUAHA *evil laughing*

[flieroflight]

i agree with the suggestion of putting it in a room and dropping prisoners ino it. no with unwanted migrants you now have a new and improved way to cull them- drop them into a room filled with deadly gas 

Wait, have I just came up with an idea for a dwarfen holocaust? Im not sure if I should be repulsed by this or embracing my inner dwarf for inspiring me to new heights of slaughter