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Author Topic: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor! (Dead)  (Read 52965 times)

Sirus

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2011, 07:10:27 pm »

Remember, I will be playing out the first year in about 5 hours. I have the SHEB Department's orders, but I'm still waiting on a definitive post from Colonial Affairs and R&D. The Diplomatic Corps and War Council, of course, don't have a whole lot to do right now.
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Comp112

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2011, 07:36:18 pm »

I will agree with your order, if you put engines in front.

So it would be engines, PI, factories, research, financial, pop growth.

Deal?
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EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2011, 07:41:57 pm »

Intelligence Agency

I, from the Diplomatic Corp, would like to suggest that we already start preparing for possible contacts. It is also very important that, if we encounter another spacefaring race, that we gather intel on their opinion about us, less they betray us.

With the support of the Diplomatic Corp, we suggest putting a minimal amount into recruiting spies, with the understanding that our budget will skyrocket upon meeting aliens.

And don't worry.  I killed everyone in my committee who disagreed with the color purple, so my committee is in full agreement with this color.   ;D

[I'm the only one who signed up for Intel Committee]

Also, I suggest the following doctrine for Espionage, know as The Triforce!
For every alien we encounter, three spies shall be used.
Codename: Defender->The first spy will stay home, and defend our planets from other spies.
Codename: Saboteur->The second spy will be positioned in the most important building of the alien's most important planet.  While not expected to last long, this spy will enable us to temporarily cripple the alien menace.
Codename: Thief->The final spy will be positioned in a relatively unimportant alien building, for long term information gathering.

Now if you excuse me, I need to reform X-Com to defend Earth yet again from the alien menace!

IronyOwl

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2011, 07:55:40 pm »

R&D

Why engines first? And how many- just the first improvement, so we can make (presumably) faster colony vessels?
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Mr.Person

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2011, 08:05:23 pm »

Colonial Affairs

I agree with Basque's plan except for these four little changes. One, rather than rush-buy a factory and a research lab, I think buying two factories would be better, or at least buying a colony ship and a factory if two factories is impossible. We want to have as many factories as possible so we can churn out a colony ship every few turns. We might lag a little on research, but we'll get far ahead in the long term by having a ton of planets.

Two, I disagree with article 2.2. Right now, it matters more to get good planets than bad ones. Taking a class 8 is about bottom end of planet classes I'd bother with at the moment. As more and more planets get taken, we'll become less picky at that point, but for now with all the universe at our fingers, we can do whatever we want, really. Specifically, if a star system has only a single mediocre class planet, simply skip it and keep going. We can always get the chaff at our leisure later even if somebody else colonizes it first.

Three, 3.2 is factually wrong. Realistically, we probably won't want influence nowhere near our enemies. High class planets are going to be economic no matter what kinds of squares they have while low class planets are never going to be economic, and we shouldn't pretend they'll become anything else.

Four, I'd like to suggest a 2.4: Colony ships will avoid going into another race's controlled space under the assumption all the good worlds in there will suck and/or defect away anyways. Also, a 5.2 about not going into other race's controlled space for asteroid mining is a given IMO.

Quick note since ship design probably isn't aware: the default colony ship sucks. The one we spawn with is only half-full for no reason. The design has a life support module we don't need. We can replace that with a second engine to boost our colonizing speed. I suggest retooling the design ASAP. Sure, we might need a ship with life support eventually, but we can easily build one with the needed life support and give the rest engines. (At least this is all what the wiki says, ignore me if this is wrong. I never knew this. But that starting colony ship IS only half-full, I know that's a fact.)

Going with the above proposals and a couple of other changes I'm basically stealing from the wiki's guide changes the plan to:

Colonial Affairs Constitution
Articles to be reviewed and approved/disproved by the other members of Colonial Affairs
Spoiler: Article 1-Colony Ships (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Article 4-Anomalies (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Article 5-Other (click to show/hide)

PPE: @R&D: Engines first is appreciated! The boon from taking many planets will result in us having many research planets, which will mean we WILL be getting all those juicy techs you mad scientists want so much. I'll try to stick a brief list of roadblocks at the end of any further posts I make so you guys can know what further research Colonial Affairs really wants.
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Basque

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #95 on: August 09, 2011, 08:35:39 pm »

Before Post edit: Mr. Person posted as I was typing-thanks Mr. Person! I tried to edit my post to comply with his but because of the time deadline I might have missed something.

Only five hours Sirus? Wow, it's crunch time for the first year. Not having experience I'm not sure how much we can accomplish in one year, but I'll try to plan out as much as I can because anything left undone can just carry on into other years.

Also I really appreciate you using this setup Sirus but it will cause the issue where maybe not everyone on a committee will be able to reply in time or the Council might not come to an agreement. I think you might have to default to vote/majority wins when people don't agree on things.

As far as Colonial Affairs goes, Mr. Person made his thoughts known a few posts back but hasn't been able to respond to me yet. I tried to follow his wishes when making these documents though, so unless he jumps in and says something different will this count as an unofficial plan? I'll post a revised version here:

Colonial Affairs Constitution - Updated as per Mr. Person's post
Articles to be reviewed and approved/disproved by the other members of Colonial Affairs
Spoiler: Article 1-Colony Ships (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Article 4-Anomalies (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Article 5-Other (click to show/hide)


Mr. Person if you're available before Sirus starts his turn please check the Earth stuff and make sure that's okay. That's our immediate concern because it's time sensitive, we'll discuss the other points as we go.

As for Research and development faster engines allow more colonies which will increase everything else across the board. Furthermore it will allow for faster travel for all other ships once they start to be used. The value of having extra planets under our control cannot be underestimated.

I think an important factor here needs to be asked of Sirus: does the version you're playing allow you to build obsolete buildings? The problem with doing things like improving factories is they have a greater cost to build and a greater maintenance cost which will absolutely kill our economy in the expansion phase since we'll be putting at least one factory on every colony. The extent of doing so depends on our ship design and the distance to stars, however Impulse Drive I is the first double speed engine so I would like to get at least there for the exploration/colonization phase.

I'll address R&D by the color Blue unless their membership decides on a different color later.

Edit: Other points of Colonial Affairs Discussion:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit 2-Bride of Edit: Sirus I really appreciated getting the screenshot of Earth and in order for Colonial Affairs to properly prepare for other colonies could we get a screenshot of them when the time comes?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 11:57:21 pm by Basque »
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Sirus

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #96 on: August 09, 2011, 08:57:46 pm »

I believe that it is possible to build obsolete buildings, and I'm pretty sure that there's an option to not automatically upgrade existing ones. I may have to fiddle around the options, but it should be possible.

In any case, if there isn't a consensus, I will simply take a majority vote. If no majority can be reached, I will use a "default" plan. Failing to stick to the schedule is the best way for an LP to fail!
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Basque

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2011, 09:05:25 pm »

I believe that it is possible to build obsolete buildings, and I'm pretty sure that there's an option to not automatically upgrade existing ones. I may have to fiddle around the options, but it should be possible.

In any case, if there isn't a consensus, I will simply take a majority vote. If no majority can be reached, I will use a "default" plan. Failing to stick to the schedule is the best way for an LP to fail!

You're a very professional man Sirus. I'll need Mr. Person confirmation but I believe at this early stage each colony should be started with only the most basic factory if possible, so that we don't completely economically cripple ourselves too soon. I change the plan for Earth to fit with Mr. Person recommendations so I believe that now has the approval of the entire Council of Colonial Affairs.

I'd like to start making some agreements with other councils and have another all-council memo in mind, however I don't know how much the first turn covers and I think it can wait. I know it must be driving R&D crazy with all the conflicting opinions but they really have the most control over what we develop that's that's probably going to be a constant issue. Luckily they have an odd-number council so they can't be deadlocked.

Spoiler: Updated Colors (click to show/hide)

Edit: Also Sirus you cannot possibly have the SHEB's orders because he was going to order a custom colony ship that doesn't suck. In fact he's going to post telling you that before you start this turn, aren't you SHEB? SHEB! >:(

Finally, in order to support the Triforce doctrine and contribute to the apparent cooperation between our Intelligence Agency (the S.P.Y Network) and the Diplomatic Corps I'd like to propose an inter-Council pact. One of the first things our spies can learn is a Planet's Influence and Approval, a.k.a how likely it is to defect. Since Shadowgandor of the Diplomacy Core recommends gathering Intel and our Spymaster EuchreJack 's Triforce Doctrine has the Thief to do just that, I think we should agree to use Spies to find high quality, low influence planets, Diplomacy/Influence to get them to Revolt if able, and then Colonial Affairs can take over once it's ours. If this is possible to achieve (given my limited understanding of game mechanics) does it sound like a plan? If we decide to agree to this Operation/Plan it will need a name too.

Yet another Edit: Sheb, despite labeling "Explore the entire Star System before settling" and the other point as Under Discussion since Mr. Person has more experience than me please consider what he says to be The Council of Colonial Affairs' official standpoint until something is resolved otherwise. In other words, this year explore the entire Star System for the highest 9+ PQ planet before colonizing, and move on to a different Star System if there isn't one.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 09:52:40 pm by Basque »
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NRDL

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2011, 09:51:13 pm »

science counselor Shadenight123 reporting in
We must discover speed travelling.
We must discover space warfare.
We must discover xeno business.
let's do this in this order. >.>

I support this idea, since it's the closest thing to what I want. 
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Basque

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2011, 10:10:31 pm »

Ahah, our Minister of War NRDL is here as well. Sir if I can have a moment of your time I have an inter-Council pact I'd like to discuss with you as well.

If you were to gloriously conquer and enemy base and it was filled with gold, would you keep the gold or throw it away? If a thief steals your wallet and you strike him down, do you take your wallet back or let it be buried with him? We may not be able to beat every civilization to colonizing every planet, but even if they steal them from us we should take the full planet and all of its resources back by force if necessary. With that in mind:

With approval of the rest of the Council of Colonial Affairs pending, I propose the following agreement between the War Council and the Council of Colonial Affairs: the Council of Colonial Affairs will specifically design industrial planets with optimized production so as to produce a mighty armada for times of war and economic planets to support the maintenance cost for such as space fleet. In return, the War Council will agree to not use war tactics that will decrease a Planet's PQ so that upon capture those planets can be put to their fullest use. Furthermore, if the Central Intelligence Agency discovers a planet has a capturable Super Project or similar structure that we could get the benefit from, we will attempt to capture it rather than destroy it.

Not that any of this will come into play until later in the game, but as a Warlord I'm sure you understand the benefits of being prepared.
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Sirus

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2011, 10:48:39 pm »

Quick note regarding spies and influencing planets to revolt, mostly for those unfamiliar with the mechanics:

While spies are initially cheap, each one costs more money to train than the previous one. The Triforce doctrine may work for a few alien empires, but it will eventually hit a point where, even at maximum funding, it can take months to train a single spy. We can still do this, but it gets more time consuming as we discover more races.

As for inciting rebellions on other planets, a large part of making that strategy work is the exact race we are facing, and their level of morale. For instance, minor races (which stay on their homeworld and almost refuse to expand) are nearly impossible to influence. Some major races have naturally high morale/influence as well.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2011, 11:39:02 pm »

Taking over planets via influence basically requires either a high influence planet right there or a fully decked out influence starbase (which requires a LOT of research) built right there.
Spoiler: More Discussion (click to show/hide)

Did you need anything else from me, Basque? By the way, thanks for writing all that out, I would never do that on my own due to laziness. Your plan is actually pretty good in general, so even if we had to go with it,
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Basque

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #102 on: August 09, 2011, 11:59:14 pm »

Mr. Person, it's great to have your kind of experience. I really appreciate you commenting, and taking the time to explain things to me. It's an honor to be on the same Council as you. :D Now then, I will revise the constitution to incorporate the exploration clauses, and reword the special tile clauses to be more conditional. Now we're rapidly running out of time before Sirus takes the first turn so the most important things are:

  • How many factories on Earth/how many turns per colony Ship is good?
  • What is our future plan for Earth? After we can produce ships in a speedy fashion what should we build?
  • We will explore an entire star system before inhabiting a 9+ PQ planet there. However, if there is more than 1 9+ PQ planet, do we send more colony ships to the same star system or is exploration more important?

Also Mr. Person for the future we should think of an Article 2 guidelines for Toxic/Aquatic/Heavy Gravity planets. We can't control the tech tree but we can make official requests and we need to decide whether to settle when we can half use a planet or wait to whole use it. Personally I'd get the planet ASAP but I'll listen to what you say. You're really much more experienced than I am at this, is there anything you can think of we haven't addressed?

Otherwise just general review and if you want to look over the couple of pacts on the table that's fine but they're not too important right now. I'll copy and paste all the documents in new revised versions (Exploration guidelines moved to Article 1 since it involves the ships and not the planets themselves):


Sirus, I agree with everything Mr. Person has said and changed the Constitution and Earth Development plan to match. Please consider his statements in these matters The Council of Colonial Affairs' official definitive standpoint.

Edit: If any of the other councils want to post a documentation like this I will try to keep them archived so we can collapse them all into one post and save Sirus the trouble of going back through the thread constantly. I was going to use nested spoilers but apparently you can't do that here. I hope collapsing things into larger category spoilers will save space.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 12:28:20 am by Basque »
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Sirus

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2011, 12:19:49 am »

So...much...reading  :P

Alright, I'm gonna get started. Here's what I'm gonna do in general, based on most recent posts:

Colonial Affairs: Build two factories on Earth, than a research station. Rush buying is unlikely to work for long, as buying something is much more expensive than building it ourselves. To much buying will quickly deplete the treasury. Colony ships will focus on PQ 9+ worlds.

R&D: Based on the (admittedly conflicting) posts, planetary improvements will be first, followed by financial institutions and engines. I'll take initiative on whatever comes next.

SHEB: Pump out colony ships, with a few constructors. Those will be used to build an economic starbase near Earth.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Let's Play GalCiv 2 - Twilight of the Arnor!
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2011, 12:38:57 am »

Well yeah, deplete the treasury. What else are we gonna do with it? Saving is for suckers. We need to invest that money so we make more money. In this case, investing it means colony ships. Getting colony ships is more efficient with factories. So that's why we buy factories.

3-4 turns per colony ship is great, especially with the low-level factories we're stuck with. Every 2 turns might deplete Earth too fast even if Earth is near its pop cap.

You can cancel auto-planetary improvements and build them later, and you can build obselete buildings. In fact, obselete factories are good in new colonies because the high level ones might take 75+ turns to build(!).
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