Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat  (Read 1318 times)

oracleoftroy

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile

Or more to the point, this training spear:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I assume it is too epic for a danger room, but will a metal training weapon pierce enemies?  Most useless weapon ever?
Logged

Crustypeanut

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ph.Dwarf & Practitioner of ‼MEDICINE‼
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 04:56:39 pm »

Test it in a danger room with a copper-armored recruit - if he gets skewered, then its worth real combat. :D

P.S.: Pick someone with no friends.
Logged
Specialsurprise - a Tale of ‼Medicine‼ and ‼Science‼ !

Jimlad11

  • Bay Watcher
  • Insert insightful text here
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 05:05:12 pm »

deleted
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:41:12 pm by Jimlad11 »
Logged
☼Cat Tallow Biscuits☼...Mmmm...

franti

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 05:08:52 pm »

You could mod training spears to be as effective as real spears, but then you wouldn't have a danger room, or, I should say, you WOULD have a "danger" room.

If it's anything like the spears in my game, any cats, dogs, or babies you fight will get destroyed.
Logged
Adamantine, Steel, Pig Iron, Iron, Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, Platinum, Brass, Black Bronze, Billon, Rose Gold, Electrum, Bismuth, Aluminum, Gold, Copper, Tin, Sterling Silver, Silver, Nickel, Zinc, Lead, Nickel Silver, Trifle Pewter, Fine Pewter, Lay Pewter.

UristMcHuman

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 05:27:28 pm »

I've never tried it, but I HAVE modded training weapons to have an edge, calling them 'cavern weapons'.
Logged

Corneria

  • Bay Watcher
  • [TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE][TRESPASSING:SHUN]
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 05:34:16 pm »

Hmm. Training weapons all do blunt damage as far as I know (Although wooden training spears do still seem to cause some quite serious damage) I would equip a dwarf with it, armour him up and then chuck him and a (disarmed) goblin into a gladiator match. Then you could check out the type of damage it is doing. e.g. can it cause lethal wounds easily?

My hunch is that it would be pretty good, due to the artefact bonus, and it might be able to go through armour as well. Just my theory, I'm sure other forum-users can give you some more concrete advice.

But testing it is the only way to be sure!

The artifact bonus only makes it more likely to land a hit. It will still perform horribly against armor.
Logged
Oh yeah: Nazis.  Now I lost the argument.  So you can't argue with me anymore.  Nyah.

Lagslayer

  • Bay Watcher
  • stand-up philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 05:36:57 pm »

Decorative trap fodder. Also, I had no idea you could get a metal training spear from a mood. Or did you do some modding?

IT 000

  • Bay Watcher
  • Strange Mood
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 05:57:24 pm »

Actually, this weapon would be amazing in combat.

Quote
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING]
[NAME:training spear:training spears]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[TWO_HANDED:47500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:42500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:200:10000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:6000:bash:bashes:shaft:1250]
[TRAINING]

Bronze has a decent density, thus it will break bones and skulls like there is no tomorrow.
Logged

***CORROSION v2.14***
<<<More Than Just Zombies>>>
Back from the Dead!

Lagslayer

  • Bay Watcher
  • stand-up philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 06:00:29 pm »

The contact area is too large, and doesn't have the velocity multiplier like a hammer or mace does. Still a very sub-par weapon for actual combat vs armor. And very dangerous for fortress guard to use, because it is still strong enough to bash in an unarmored dwarf's skull.

oracleoftroy

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 06:37:02 pm »

No modding, it was a woodcutter who must have dabbled in weaponsmithing at one point in his life who claimed a metalsmith's forge.  I'm guessing that his highest "real" skill was weaponsmithing, so he took over a forge, but his woodcutting caused him to make a more appropriate carpentry type of weapon.

My more experienced speardwarves are rather attached to their weapons, so I gave it to a recent recruit and pitted him against my only prisoner, a goblin thief.  I removed the thief's dagger, but left him all his armor and his bag. He got a good swing in at one point, "The Goblin Thief strikes The Wrestler in the upper body with her (honey badger leather bag), bruising the muscle and bruising the right lung through the XX*longfin mako shark leather cloak*XX!" I was worried for a moment, but the recruit prevailed in the end.

The full gamelog for the fight:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't tell how effective it was, most of the stabs resulted in bruising, and he used it to bash a lot as well, but I'm not sure if that is just the recruit's inexperience or the weapon (or both).
Logged

Corneria

  • Bay Watcher
  • [TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE][TRESPASSING:SHUN]
    • View Profile
Re: A question as to the effectiveness of training spears in actual combat
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 07:05:33 pm »

No modding, it was a woodcutter who must have dabbled in weaponsmithing at one point in his life who claimed a metalsmith's forge.  I'm guessing that his highest "real" skill was weaponsmithing, so he took over a forge, but his woodcutting caused him to make a more appropriate carpentry type of weapon.

My more experienced speardwarves are rather attached to their weapons, so I gave it to a recent recruit and pitted him against my only prisoner, a goblin thief.  I removed the thief's dagger, but left him all his armor and his bag. He got a good swing in at one point, "The Goblin Thief strikes The Wrestler in the upper body with her (honey badger leather bag), bruising the muscle and bruising the right lung through the XX*longfin mako shark leather cloak*XX!" I was worried for a moment, but the recruit prevailed in the end.

The full gamelog for the fight:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't tell how effective it was, most of the stabs resulted in bruising, and he used it to bash a lot as well, but I'm not sure if that is just the recruit's inexperience or the weapon (or both).

Both. But as stated, the fact that is a training spear makes it nearly useless for combat. The artifact multiplier is only going to grant greatly increased accuracy, nothing else.
Logged
Oh yeah: Nazis.  Now I lost the argument.  So you can't argue with me anymore.  Nyah.