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[counting]

It's neither patent related nor copyright related. Trademark and brand laws are something different still..

From what I read in translation, it's already registered as trademark. And the common law of brand still suit for this in legal ground? Like the geographic limitation of common law may only protect a local use, but not a wider use, so Notch can just skip the local region for the product. But under registered trademark it's more complicated than that. (I remembered its like that, not quite sure how accurate.)

[counting]

I think I like Notch a little less, after I do some search in EU community trade mark. I like minecraft and it's original idea, but Notch seems more and more like a businessman than indi game developer nowadays. Mojang is heading into big gaming developer business. (Thanks for the IP course for teaching me how to search registration)

Search result for SCROLLS :
0 Germany (Status 05.08.2011 00:00:00)
4 EU (Status 05.08.2011 00:00:00)
0 International Registration (Status 03.08.2011 00:00:00)

Search Results:
   Trademark   RegNo.   Class      Registration Date   
   THE ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM   EU 10121432   09, 16, 25   13.07.2011
   THE ELDER SCROLLS   EU 2840098   09, 38, 41   09.03.2004
   THE ELDER SCROLLS   EU 8283161   09   07.12.2009   
   SCROLLS   EU 9728321   09, 25, 28, 41   29.07.2011

You can see that there are 4 EU community trademark using word SCROLLS in class 9 EU (computer games,etc). It's clearly the major 3 THE ELDER SCROLLS are all for the famous one (one of them is about to expire, so there are 2 "THE ELDER SCROLLS", second one is the renew one), and Notch actually trying to register his own trademark using the single word SCROLLS.

By looking into the details,
THE ELDER SCROLLS   EU 8283161
SCROLLS   EU 9728321
THE ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM   EU 10121432
You can see that it's Notch trying to register "SCROLLS" for quite some time (send to registration Feb.10, 2011), and has been on file since Mar 29, 2011. It takes months to be approved in July 29, 2011. Then the next day it was published July 30, the ZeniMax Media Inc. been alarmed and file the opposition. And I guess it takes registration and mailing service some days to send the notification to Notch's hand, and the legal team send a separate letter to Notch himself possibly seeking negotiation. In all this time Notch not only KNEW what's happening, and possibly actively push it. It's when the trademark about to be effective, "THE ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM" was then rushed to registration on July 13. They are the one who is defending its own trademark, not the other way around. Notch's action triggered the event. And he is probably already knew it's coming since the day he tried to register. I guess this is all a publicity event, Notch is trying to sell the name to public. By blowing things up the name SCROLLS may actually be recognized (identifying his game), and after the legal deal & drama is done the trademark might be his to use. (Probably in some form of more specific trademark terms like NOTCH SCROLLS or something distinguishable). Both sides have legal representative as well. There is no innocent party in this. 

[Duke 2.0]

I guess this is all a publicity event, Notch is trying to sell the name to public.

How.

 I admit I'm not following this too closely but the extent of Notch talking about this extends as far as posting about it on his blog, because its a big thing for his company. Anything else is the fan reaction.

 Timing his registration with the Skyrim registration is a moot point due to two previous games with the same title already registered.

[counting]

I guess this is all a publicity event, Notch is trying to sell the name to public.

How.

 I admit I'm not following this too closely but the extent of Notch talking about this extends as far as posting about it on his blog, because its a big thing for his company. Anything else is the fan reaction.

 Timing his registration with the Skyrim registration is a moot point due to two previous games with the same title already registered.

Even Notch did the registration 6 months early? And acting he just knew? Not to mention it's actually be approved 6 days before his tweet, and 5 days after the opposition is filed and made notification?

[Duke 2.0]

About half a year ago, our lawyers recommended us to register “Minecraft” as a trademark, so we did. I had voted against it initially, but we did it anyway. Better safe than sorry, and all that. At the same time, we also applied for “Scrolls”, the new game we’re working on. We knew of no similarly named games, and we had even googled it to make sure. I’m not even sure if you CAN trademark individual words, like “Scrolls”, but we sent in the application anyway.

 He applied for it six months ago because he applied for Minecraft six months ago.

 I'm not really seeing your point with the tweets.

 Edit: Strife has a valid point, but from looking at these tweets Notch is enforcing the idea that this is just lawyers being lawyers and that Bethesda is still cool. Again, all the negative feelings from this are from the fans.

[Strife26]

I could certainly see Notch trying something like that, considering the not-inconsiderable publicity this is getting in gaming circles.
"Fuck teh big Bethesda company" and all.

[Soulwynd]

Ps.:

The elder scrolls != Scrolls

It's irrelevant if the word is contained in another trademark even in the same area.

At least I'd like to believe the population has the minimal intelligence required to recognize between Scrolls and The Elder Scrolls.

Kthx.

[Virex]

Ps.:

The elder scrolls != Scrolls

It's irrelevant if the word is contained in another trademark even in the same area.

At least I'd like to believe the population has the minimal intelligence required to recognize between Scrolls and The Elder Scrolls.

Kthx.

You mean the same population that thinks Halo 4 is a better game than Deus Ex 1?

[Soulwynd]

I know it was sarcasm, but that's an opinion. Even a bird can be taught to recognize between Scrolls and The Elder Scrolls.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You know, I heard that Notch was going to use his ill-gotten Minecraft profits to flood the EU's economy and become Dictator of Europe. True story.

Yep, he sure is an evil bastard all right, developing games for people and registering legal trademarks like that. Especially his encouragement of a modding community, absolutely abominable.

[counting]

I am not saying Notch's own personal feelings. It's the act that matters. I personally deal with lawyers and IP claims in the past. They can be persuasive for your actions. (I guess a part of it explained why Notch's saying about lawyers, possibly not just the opposite one, but also his own).

Story may be like
2/10
Lawyer : Hey! you know what is IP law? and you need trademark registration to protect yourself.
Notch : What is that? And how much will it cost me?
Lawyer : It's how people do business these day. And it's not difficult and expensive, it's more of a situation with the one dig a underground mineshaft first will get the diamond!
Notch : OK! Let me get my hat and you dig up a good plan for me. 

7/29
Notch : hey! I get a notification from EU community trademark office said our trademark approved!
Lawyer : Not so fast hot shot. It's a dangerous territory right now. When you think you're safe, it's the time of creepers coming after you.

7/30
Notch : What! Skyrim is a trademark? And who is ZeniMax said they opposed our registration?
Lawyer : Leave the matter to the professionals. I'll talk to them, and file a counter-opposition. You don't want to go into a cave without torches right?

After 5 days of back-and-forth.
Notch : Help! they send another letter now. It's those Zeni guys I don't know about. What do I do?
Lawyer : Oh! don't worry it's just a legal tender that the lawyers play when they need solid writing evidence for courts.
Notch : So, what should I do?
Lawyer : Just like you don't need to know how to design a water/larva trap, you can still use it. Just follow my lead. Right now, you need to express the ubiquity of SCROLLS in order for the association and identification with the game.
Notch : What? I don't understand?
Lawyer : Well, just tell what's in your mind to your fans. (Lawyer's thought : They are the one who will be highly identify with your game, and with their support we can create a separate market to claim the legal tender). And remember to include the keywords "Scrolls" in them.
Notch : OK. tweet, tweet.

After the meeting with Notch, several phone calls
Lawyer : Hey! you want a story? I got a good one for you.
Journalists : Ok. What is it?
Lawyer : You know Minecraft right? Do you know SCROLLS?

8/6
Notch : They are after me!
Lawyer : Don't worry it's for our best.
Notch : The company offers a deal for a lot of money for exclusive right.
Lawyer : Strike them. We can hold our mine, and think about what the brand name can bring us - the right to make coffee cups and T-shirts with SCROLLS on them. Think about the profit!
Notch : $_$. tweet. tweet.

Code: [Select]

notch Markus Persson
(I will not* accept bribes for exclusives)
6 AugLawyer thinking : (That's right! Now we are talking! Hold ground hot shot, not we got a case)

P.S. I don't think everything is dirty or I am accusing anyone immoral. (a little greedy on all parties perhaps). But really it's how you do computer-related businesses these days. You got a phone call from your lawyer tell you it's a good idea to protect IP of your company, and then you fight for it in the coming months (possibly in law suits). And the lawyers will tell you some strategies in IP that can protect you (They even got a name for it the IP map and attack/defense IP). And after the law suits the lawyers will claim it's all your doing. Because it's what you want. They are just representatives, and nothing more.

[G-Flex]

I think I like Notch a little less, after I do some search in EU community trade mark. I like minecraft and it's original idea, but Notch seems more and more like a businessman than indi game developer nowadays.

Trust me, Notch is not a businessman. At all. If he were, he'd be much better at it.

Seriously though, what likely happened here is that he named the game "Scrolls" without considering that the trademark had already been filed for, if it indeed has been. There's probably nothing more nefarious going on than that.


I honestly have no freaking clue why you're saying that Notch is trying to do anything underhanded. The single word "Scrolls" was not a registered trademark prior to his pushing for its registration. At all. I also highly doubt the timing is anything more than coincidence.

[counting]

I think I like Notch a little less, after I do some search in EU community trade mark. I like minecraft and it's original idea, but Notch seems more and more like a businessman than indi game developer nowadays.

Trust me, Notch is not a businessman. At all. If he were, he'd be much better at it.

Seriously though, what likely happened here is that he named the game "Scrolls" without considering that the trademark had already been filed for, if it indeed has been. There's probably nothing more nefarious going on than that.


I honestly have no freaking clue why you're saying that Notch is trying to do anything underhanded. The single word "Scrolls" was not a registered trademark prior to his pushing for its registration. At all. I also highly doubt the timing is anything more than coincidence.

MORE LIKE a businessman. Cares about protecting it's works, and how to make profit, T-shirts (accompany merchandizes), etc. Mojang AB is already a legal entity as company. And talking about hiring another team to develop other games. I see the original indie developer Notch much less who tweet about developments in game, but about purchasing and buy stuff. Not that it's bad or evil, it's just not the same anymore. And personally I don't think it's bad for his own life either. However, I don't feel that close to Notch as a goofy hat beard guy.

And he did file the registration 6 months ago, whether its the advise from the lawyers or not. HE DID the decision SIX MONTHS AGO. And NOW acting as its just a big misunderstanding? Drop the act already. You know you HAVE to pre check for previous contradiction, BEFORE registration. And it's done 6 months ago. No way Notch has no clue its coming. (Or his IP lawyer/handler did a very terrible job). It's not underhanded. But the timing? Come on. It's the digital age now. Notch already GOT the registration at 7/29. HE knew it, and HE already got the registered trademark "SCROLLS". And the opposition come 1 day after that 7/30. (Opposite IP lawyers is quite good at their jobs, big company and everything). And those busy little lawyers come up the letter, and mail it to Notch. (I assume he got it around the same time much earlier than 8/5). Perhaps the mailing service is so slow took 6 days. But HE already KNEW its going to happened, since the opposed is filing against the claim for nearly a week. (Anyone can look them up on the Internet, again if Notch being informed 6 days late, or knowing after the letter, his lawyer must suck). No coincidence about it, since any violations in registration will be informed to all parties officially by the registration agency. It's the APPROVAL of Notch's trademark registration claim triggered this event. And it just waiting to happen sooner or later (standard is 3-6 months after the filing), after the filing for registration. (Again, If Notch's lawyer doesn't warm him, or instruct him what to do, he should fire this bad legal adviser).

[Virex]

Besides, he could've seen the trouble coming miles before he registered it. The Elder Scrolls are pretty well-known and naming a game "Scrolls" is on the same level as starting a software company called Millisoft. Even if you're ultimately allowed to do it, you can bet your pancreas that there's someone that's not going to take kind of you doing it.

[Soulwynd]

Ahem

http://www.milliesoft.co.uk/
http://www.millisoft.de/


Doesn't matter if it sounds the same, doesn't matter if has a word another trademark has. If it's not the same, it's not the same. Putting an extortion price up ahead is criminal.