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[counting]

In trademark law in order to serve as a trademark, a mark must be distinctive. There are 4 categories needs to be examined in order to determine if it's distinctive.

1.arbitrary or fanciful
2.suggestive
3.descriptive
4.generic

Sometime a generic term CAN be distinctive if it's widely associate, like "Apple". It's the public opinion to determine if a trademark is distinctive enough. And if the prior IS, then it will likely stand in court. 

I take course of IP (Intellectual Property) course for more credits actually. And it's FUN and new, and full of controversy. Like last year the google online digital library case. currently google books, once it claimed that every published work in the future can be scanned and stored and made accessible in Library, if the library paid google, without authors' approvals. Unless you opt-out. It alternately failed. Now, it's only very limited works on google book, and only those signed agreement one by one can be made accessible in digital form on google books. (Can't even scan them without approval, even its lay in dust in public library for decades)

[Ninteen45]

The PR's department at Bethesda must be full of retarded chimps with AIDS. Nice way to launch your next bestseller, morons.

i wounder if i can get sued for having Viiet in my name cause it means im viet as in vietnam yea im noot sued mojang sould not get sued like that u r a sick sick comany how can u live with knowing that u ruined 3 million peoples favorite game really 3 MILLION!

WTF?
 Its one godamn word!!!
 Its like me getting sued by Notch cuz I established a mine!!!

I'm pretty sure the people who made Elders Scrolls just hate Minecraft and are trying to shut them down.

:iapprove: , kick the lawyers ass!
 
Notch: Creeper army, I choose you!
 :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS:
Lawyers: OH shi-
 BOOOOOM!!!
 Notch: What now fuckers?

Do they even knowe the smiley system is broken?

lol backfired. the needs to get more info on the topic b4 she goes and sues peepz

really? bethesda, really???
 all i can say is...
 CREEPER ARMY, ATTACK!!!!! :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS: :SSSS:

... Oh god...

I need to go outside, guys.

I'll see you... later.

[Soulwynd]

Like I said in the Othergames/Minecraft thread, the letter the firm sent Notch is criminal. He should check his country's laws for extortion and contact the police if communications do not work, which they haven't already.

[Hitty40]

This is possibly the worst thing that Bethseda has done since they fucked us over on Fallout 3 with all its' bugs and such.



Creeper army, attack!

[FunctionZero]

This is possibly the worst thing that Bethseda has done since they fucked us over on Fallout 3 with all its' bugs and such.

Haven't you been paying attention? This is the law firm's doing. Bethesda probably had nothing to do with it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This is possibly the worst thing that Bethseda has done since they fucked us over on Fallout 3 with all its' bugs and such.

Haven't you been paying attention? This is the law firm's doing. Bethesda probably had nothing to do with it.

Actually, we don't really know anything about this. The law firm acting independently of Bethesda is conjecture. (And I happened to enjoy Fallout 3 very much, by the way.)

[G-Flex]

Controversial copyright and trademark discussion

It won't, unless Sweden has some bass-ackwards law that allows it to. The word "scroll", while not neccessarily commonly used in the modern lexicon, is a regular common word, and trying to copyright it would be trying to copyright the word "the"(which is also in the title "The Elder Scrolls").

Someone somewhere thinks that a body they represent owns all legal rights to the use of the word "Scrolls"? Rly?

There's a lot of bizarre misinformation going on here.

• Trademarks are not copyrights. They are not the same thing. This case has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.
• Owning a trademark does not mean you have "all legal rights to that word". It means that only you are allowed to use it to identify products/services within a given industry (or within competing products, or something like that; it's okay to have the same brand name as something else if you're in completely different industries selling completely different things).
• Claiming trademark infringement doesn't mean you think you have all legal trademark rights to, in this case, part of the trademark ("Scrolls"); it just means that you think consumers might be confused about the identity of the product or its source.
• You can, in fact, trademark common words, but only under certain conditions. "Apple" for computers is fine. "Apple" for an actual brand of apples wouldn't be.

Sometime a generic term CAN be distinctive if it's widely associate, like "Apple". It's the public opinion to determine if a trademark is distinctive enough. And if the prior IS, then it will likely stand in court.

"Apple" isn't a generic trademark unless you're actually talking about apples. It's an arbitrary one, meaning there's no problem with registering it. A generic term is one that is used for the product in general, not just a specific brand (so you couldn't have a brand of salt called "salt").

[Virex]

Controversial copyright and trademark discussion

It won't, unless Sweden has some bass-ackwards law that allows it to. The word "scroll", while not neccessarily commonly used in the modern lexicon, is a regular common word, and trying to copyright it would be trying to copyright the word "the"(which is also in the title "The Elder Scrolls").

Someone somewhere thinks that a body they represent owns all legal rights to the use of the word "Scrolls"? Rly?

There's a lot of bizarre misinformation going on here.

• Trademarks are not copyrights. They are not the same thing. This case has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.
• Owning a trademark does not mean you have "all legal rights to that word". It means that only you are allowed to use it to identify products/services within a given industry (or within competing products, or something like that; it's okay to have the same brand name as something else if you're in completely different industries selling completely different things).
• Claiming trademark infringement doesn't mean you think you have all legal trademark rights to, in this case, part of the trademark ("Scrolls"); it just means that you think consumers might be confused about the identity of the product or its source.
• You can, in fact, trademark common words, but only under certain conditions. "Apple" for computers is fine. "Apple" for an actual brand of apples wouldn't be.

Sometime a generic term CAN be distinctive if it's widely associate, like "Apple". It's the public opinion to determine if a trademark is distinctive enough. And if the prior IS, then it will likely stand in court.

"Apple" isn't a generic trademark unless you're actually talking about apples. It's an arbitrary one, meaning there's no problem with registering it. A generic term is one that is used for the product in general, not just a specific brand (so you couldn't have a brand of salt called "salt").

To further support that point, there are actually 3 corporations called Apple: One dealing with multimedia, a bank and the devil's spawn itself. There are no problems with this since they don't opperate in the same market so there's no chance of brand confusion.

[G-Flex]

Actually, Apple (computers) does own Apple Corps' trademarks. There was a huge legal battle, and now the media company licenses that stuff from Apple Inc. The important thing here was that Apple Inc. started their iTunes store and released the iPod, putting them into enough overlap with Apple Corps' territory that they finally won the case. Prior to that, they had tried using other logic to do the same, like the fact that Apple computers could play MIDI files.

[counting]

Sometime a generic term CAN be distinctive if it's widely associate, like "Apple". It's the public opinion to determine if a trademark is distinctive enough. And if the prior IS, then it will likely stand in court.

"Apple" isn't a generic trademark unless you're actually talking about apples. It's an arbitrary one, meaning there's no problem with registering it. A generic term is one that is used for the product in general, not just a specific brand (so you couldn't have a brand of salt called "salt").

It's my bad didn't make a distinction between "generic term" and "common term" of things. It is falling into the arbitrary discussion regarding trademark as you said. My mistake of using the unfit English word. It brings me back to how hard to memorized the English terms in legal term during class, they often means a lot different when translated or used in legal terms. (I am not a native-English user.)

So regarding if "Scrolls" can identify and distinctive to a product of game. What's your opinions? Does it has legal ground?

[Virex]

Sometime a generic term CAN be distinctive if it's widely associate, like "Apple". It's the public opinion to determine if a trademark is distinctive enough. And if the prior IS, then it will likely stand in court.

"Apple" isn't a generic trademark unless you're actually talking about apples. It's an arbitrary one, meaning there's no problem with registering it. A generic term is one that is used for the product in general, not just a specific brand (so you couldn't have a brand of salt called "salt").

It's my bad didn't make a distinction between "generic term" and "common term" of things. It is falling into the arbitrary discussion regarding trademark as you said. My mistake of using the unfit English word. It brings me back to how hard to memorized the English terms in legal term during class, they often means a lot different when translated or used in legal terms. (I am not a native-English user.)

So regarding if "Scrolls" can identify and distinctive to a product of game. What's your opinions? Does it has legal ground?

IIRC, it pretty much comes down to what would happen if you'd walk up to a generic gamer and started talking about "that scrolls game". If they immediately figure out you're talking about a game from the Elder Scrolls series, then Scrolls is a distinctive term for Bethesda's flagship series and as such is protected by brand laws.

[counting]

I remember vaguely that a concept can not be patented. And copyright is for the creative work, regarding its a "finished" work. And even if Notch's work has the similarity toward the others as long as he can provide detailed about how he come up with it without copying others, it's still not infringement. It's independent with the trademark claims, but still possible be a legal claim in this case (I can't read Sweden)? Notch copying it somehow? (Whatever this claim is legit or not, it's for the legal system to decide). This is much more series charges than misuse of trademark.

he battle for the use of trademarks usually ends with one party using some added terms alongside to distinguish themselves like the "sid meier's civilization", and none of the party really lost the effectiveness of their unique brand. More or less a question about how much one party has to pay the other (Poor one sue the Rich one), or banned the others (Rich one sue the poor one)

[Virex]

I remember vaguely that a concept can not be patented. And copyright is for the creative work, regarding its a "finished" work. And even if Notch's work has the similarity toward the others as long as he can provide detailed about how he come up with it without copying others, it's still not infringement. It's independent with the trademark claims, but still possible be a legal claim in this case (I can't read Sweden)? Notch copying it somehow? (Whatever this claim is legit or not, it's for the legal system to decide). This is much more series charges than misuse of trademark.

It's neither patent related nor copyright related. Trademark and brand laws are something different still. They exist to avoid brand confusion by having similar names/logos/identifying product properties in the same market. As such, since the name Scrolls comes very close to the name Bethesda uses for it's flagship IP, there could be brand confusion which has to be avoided. This is also why they take action long before Notch finishes his product. They're saying that if he were to publish it under this name, they will take steps to protect the identity of their IP. The early warning actually enables him to make a name change to avoid this.
Note that this doesn't mean that Bethesda is right, it's up to a judge to decide that if it were to come to that. But due to the high similarity between "Scrolls" and "The Elder Scrolls" I give them a pretty high chance. Notch's only real saving grace is that there's a large difference between the genres, but I don't think that'd be enough to avoid brand confusion.


Edit: On a side note, the only thing controversial about this topic is that we're dealing with an indy developer possibly infringing on the rights of a mainstream game developer. Things like this happen all the time between large companies, but they don't stir up similar reactions because nobody cares about it. To put things in perspective, imagine who you'd be rooting for if Blizzard would announce a game called "Dwarf Stronghold"...

[Soulwynd]

Would be rooting for nobody.

If there's a single letter of difference, this bullshit shouldn't happen.

[counting]

Out of curiosity, I translate the pics of Sweden using machine translator. It's quite interesting how accurate it may be. And get a somewhat more understanding what it is.

SKICKAS REKOMMENDERAT

VARUMARKESINTRANG

Jag tillskriver Dig i egenskap av ombud for foretaget ZeniMax Media Inc.

Min huvudman skapar och publicerar interaktivt underhallningsinnehall for bland annat TV-spelskonsoler, datorer och handburna/tradlosa enheter. Företaget har en lang och framgangsrik historia och ligger bakom flera prisbelonta spel, däribland den varldsberomda spelserien The ELDER SCROLLS. varumärket THE ELDER SCROLLS ar skyddat for bland annat olika underhallningsvaror och -tjanster, dari inbegripet dator- och videospel. Inom EU ar min huvudman bland annat innehavare av de registrerade gemenskapsvarumärket med registre-ringsnummer 29440098 och 8283161

Det har kommit till min huvudmans kannedom att Mojang AB ("Mojang") anvander kannetecknet SCROLLS vid marknadsforing av ett kommande dator- och/eller videospel. Kännetecknet SCROLLS uppvisar betydande visuella, fonetiska och begrepps massiga likheter med min huvudmans varumarke THE ELDER SCROLLS. Dessa likheter forstarks av att det inom underhallningsbranschen, dari inbegripet datorspelsbranschen, ar vanligt forekommande att varor och tjanster med ett gemensamt kommersiellt ursprung marknadsfors under kannetecken som konstrueras utifran ett gemensamt markeselement. Som exempel kan namnas  företaget Nintendos varldsberomda Mario-serie med speltitlar som Mario Bros. och Super Mario Bros eller foretaget Blizzards Warcraft-serie med speltitlar som Warcraft: Orcs and Humans och World of Warcraft. Det rader saledes en uppenbar risk for att genomsnittskonsumenten far uppfattningen att varor och/eller tjanster som tillhandahlls under kannetecknet SCROLLS respektive THE ELDER SCROLLS harror fran samma kommersiella ursprung eller atminstone fran foretag med ekonomiska band. Mot bakgrund harav ar det var uppfattning att Mojangs anvandning av kannetecknet SCROLLS utgor intrang i min huvudmans ...

SENT RECOMMENDED

Trademark infringement

I write to you as an agent for the former company ZeniMax Media Inc.

My principal creates and publishes interactive entertainment withheld including video game consoles, computers, and handheld / wireless devices. The company has a long and successful history and is behind several award-winning games, including the world-famous game series The Elder Scrolls. brand Elder Scrolls is protected for including various entertainment goods and services, including computer and video games. In the EU, my principal including the holders of registered community trade mark registration number 29440098 and 8283161

It has come to my principal know that Mojang AB ("Mojang") uses the sign SCROLL in the marketing of an upcoming computer - and / or video games. The sign SCROLL exhibit significant visual, aural and conceptual similarities with my principal branded The Elder Scrolls. These similarities strengthened by the fact that in the entertainment industry, including computer games industry, are commonly found next to products and services with a common commercial origin marketed under marked as constructed from a common ground harness segments. For example, the company Nintendo's world-famous Mario series of games titles like Mario Brothers. and Super Mario Bros. or before the time Blizzard's Warcraft series of games titles like Warcraft: Orcs and Humans and the World of Warcraft. Thus, there is a clear risk to the average consumer to get the idea that goods and / or services that provides for pitchers sign SCROLL and The Elder Scrolls from the same commercial origin or at least from companies with financial ties. Given this, it is our opinion that Mojang uses pitchers sign SCROLL constitutes an infringement of my principal ...