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[EnigmaticHat]

In most multiplayer games losing involves losing/slowing progress through the game, or being rendered unable to play it temporarily.  Also, you can't expect people to not be boring and effective when one guy who's being boring and effective can kill all the people who aren't.

Generally the only time people in multiplayer games can be trusted to play nice is when there isn't random matching, AKA people know each other and if you're an ass people will stop playing with you.

[Tsuchigumo550]

Personally, I love games where there's enough balance for assholery potential.

"Hmm, a lot of people use this build because it's damn good, and it's weaknesses are cover-able. Let's find the one chink and EXPLOIT THE FUCK OUT OF IT WITH COUNTERCLASSES"

get called a noob, among other things
cause ragequits, because people want their build to work no matter what, because "why should i build a class"
this is the only reason I even play CoD games anymore.

[alexandertnt]

I know. Its one of the reasons I dont like MMO's, their precision-engineered balance reduces your choices to very carefully selected options, all your options and paths have already been planned out for you on a whiteboard in a sterile office enviroment somewhere.

But I dont blame the designers for that, its sort of a requirement for multiplayer games because as you said, the players will tend towards the most efficient strategy.

What I said is just what I would like from my POV, something that favoured creativity over victory.

*sigh* There are so few games like that.

[MoLAoS]

I know. Its one of the reasons I dont like MMO's, their precision-engineered balance reduces your choices to very carefully selected options, all your options and paths have already been planned out for you on a whiteboard in a sterile office enviroment somewhere.

But I dont blame the designers for that, its sort of a requirement for multiplayer games because as you said, the players will tend towards the most efficient strategy.

What I said is just what I would like from my POV, something that favoured creativity over victory.

*sigh* There are so few games like that.

Secondlife is like that no? All about creation rather than winning? Actual games have winning as a precondition to gameiness.

[darkflagrance]

The problem is that creativity is most valuable competitively in constantly changing or unsolved games/problems. But modern games are usually too simple/static for creativity to be useful after the easy optimal solutions are quickly found.

A game with constantly shifting content/balance or that evolves over time infinitely might reward creativity more.

[scrdest]

The problem is that creativity is most valuable competitively in constantly changing or unsolved games/problems. But modern games are usually too simple/static for creativity to be useful after the easy optimal solutions are quickly found.

A game with constantly shifting content/balance or that evolves over time infinitely might reward creativity more.

It's pretty much basic evolution. If the environment is perfectly stable, solutions approach local optimum and then there's no room to innovate.

[Mech#4]

The problem is that creativity is most valuable competitively in constantly changing or unsolved games/problems. But modern games are usually too simple/static for creativity to be useful after the easy optimal solutions are quickly found.

A game with constantly shifting content/balance or that evolves over time infinitely might reward creativity more.

It's pretty much basic evolution. If the environment is perfectly stable, solutions approach local optimum and then there's no room to innovate.

Would this be why World of Warcraft keeps coming out with patches adjusting the classes?

While I don't play DOTA or really play Team Fortress 2, those games seem to kick up the existing balance by introducing new characters or weapons rather then adjusting current ones constantly.

[alexandertnt]

Secondlife is like that no? All about creation rather than winning? Actual games have winning as a precondition to gameiness.

Stated on a forum about a game with no victory conditions

I should emphasise the use of the word "favour" (I never used the word "All"). A more loose, casual competitive enviroment might foster something like that. There may still some goal or victory condition, but not everyone is as hellbent on accomplishing that goal (A "losing is fun" mentality might just help here).

Second Life has about the right idea in regards to the way "modding" works though.

[Korbac]

Yeah you know that vehicle combat game where you build your vehicle? I wish every game had that kind of stuff in it. Let me make a stupid tank with lots of armor and a big gun but it can hardly move, or a VTOL vectored-thrust drone, or a helicopter-propeller-plane-hybrid. Or a tank with propellers around it to slice up infantry.

What's the game called?

I believe WarZone 2100 is what he's on about. This certainly fits the bill

Wait, tanks with propellers? This sounds amazing.

[blazing glory]

Yeah you know that vehicle combat game where you build your vehicle? I wish every game had that kind of stuff in it. Let me make a stupid tank with lots of armor and a big gun but it can hardly move, or a VTOL vectored-thrust drone, or a helicopter-propeller-plane-hybrid. Or a tank with propellers around it to slice up infantry.

What's the game called?

I believe WarZone 2100 is what he's on about. This certainly fits the bill

Wait, tanks with propellers? This sounds amazing.

Even more reason to find out what this game's called.

EDIT I'm doubtful but he might be reffering to roboforge,though it's a low chance since it doesn't have VTOL vectored thrust drone capability nor infantry to slice up

[Donuts]

Yeah you know that vehicle combat game where you build your vehicle? I wish every game had that kind of stuff in it. Let me make a stupid tank with lots of armor and a big gun but it can hardly move, or a VTOL vectored-thrust drone, or a helicopter-propeller-plane-hybrid. Or a tank with propellers around it to slice up infantry.

What's the game called?

I believe WarZone 2100 is what he's on about. This certainly fits the bill

Wait, tanks with propellers? This sounds amazing.

Even more reason to find out what this game's called.

EDIT I'm doubtful but he might be reffering to roboforge,though it's a low chance since it doesn't have VTOL vectored thrust drone capability nor infantry to slice up

I know a game that's REALLY close to this. I just can't remember the name anymore.

[scrdest]

Yeah you know that vehicle combat game where you build your vehicle? I wish every game had that kind of stuff in it. Let me make a stupid tank with lots of armor and a big gun but it can hardly move, or a VTOL vectored-thrust drone, or a helicopter-propeller-plane-hybrid. Or a tank with propellers around it to slice up infantry.

What's the game called?

I believe WarZone 2100 is what he's on about. This certainly fits the bill

Wait, tanks with propellers? This sounds amazing.

Even more reason to find out what this game's called.

EDIT I'm doubtful but he might be reffering to roboforge,though it's a low chance since it doesn't have VTOL vectored thrust drone capability nor infantry to slice up

I know a game that's REALLY close to this. I just can't remember the name anymore.

It's called Spore, before they fucked it up

[Mech#4]

Yeah you know that vehicle combat game where you build your vehicle? I wish every game had that kind of stuff in it. Let me make a stupid tank with lots of armor and a big gun but it can hardly move, or a VTOL vectored-thrust drone, or a helicopter-propeller-plane-hybrid. Or a tank with propellers around it to slice up infantry.

What's the game called?

I believe WarZone 2100 is what he's on about. This certainly fits the bill

Wait, tanks with propellers? This sounds amazing.

Even more reason to find out what this game's called.

EDIT I'm doubtful but he might be reffering to roboforge,though it's a low chance since it doesn't have VTOL vectored thrust drone capability nor infantry to slice up

I know a game that's REALLY close to this. I just can't remember the name anymore.

It's called Spore, before they fucked it up

I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?

[LordBaal]

BAhajajahahahahahaha you made my day!! Signed!!!

[scrdest]

-snip-

I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?

I'm thinking more of a bottom feeder, preying on species living close to the bottom of the sea.