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Author Topic: Games you wish existed  (Read 968222 times)

itisnotlogical

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2460 on: June 11, 2013, 07:07:22 am »

Inspired to watch the series again by Doug Walker's vlogs about it, I'm beginning to think about how kickass a well-balanced Avatar: The Last Airbender MMORPG or MMOBA would be. With only four classes to pick from, the balance could remain tight as hell while still having plenty of variety. Players would be heavily optimized to work together in groups of 2 to 6, each one filling a specific role: Earthbenders have massive offense but have low speed, firebenders can do AoE like a mother and roll around at the speed of sound, airbenders stun/support and waterbenders heal and defend.

With almost no shoehorning, they could even have some really cool endgame abilities. I won't spoil what those might be though. I don't care how old those spoilers are, it's worth it to be surprised. Fellow fans can vouch that they're just that awesome.

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SalmonGod

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2461 on: June 11, 2013, 07:26:54 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, I'm aware.  Most of the longest-standing game design issues are a matter of publishers forcing appeal to the lowest common denominator.  Doesn't matter how good the game design is.  If the majority player base's first reaction is to whine, it has to go.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MoLAoS

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2462 on: June 11, 2013, 07:39:05 am »

My main issue is that since games are supposed to improve on real life people only want to interact with the elements that interest them. This poses a problem to any game that wants to simulate a world since that requires at least some of the things that makes real life suck. I have long argued on mmorpg.com, in between numerous bans, that the tedium is necessary for some of the most interesting aspects of civilization and warfare, like the spread or not of knowledge and the various fun economic systems but I am drowned out by people that really should have been playing MOBAs all along instead of shoving action combat into MMOs.

I think in some cases we do have real obstacles. For instance in real life many systems are dependent on mind numbing drudgery. I haven't worked out how to handle that without NPCs or abstraction and then you have to avoid the investment problem where any investment tends to pay itself off quickly in an MMO unless you make investments as mind numbing as the drudgery NPCs are meant to avoid.

But we never even have the chance to tackle these design problems since future MOBA fans are destroying what makes MMOs unique. Not that MOBAs are bad but not every single game needs to be one.
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2463 on: June 11, 2013, 07:49:59 am »

MOBAs are a fad, like mobile gaming. They're taking market share but not killing it.
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Kaje

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2464 on: June 11, 2013, 07:55:40 am »

I've been playing a LOT of the Caveman2Cosmos mod for Civ IV lately (thanks CognitiveDissonance!), as well as watching crap TV like 'Ancient Aliens' and I was thinking there should be a game like Civ where there's a small chance of an event happening - such as a UFO crashing nearby - where if you get to it first, or it crashes in your borders, you are able to try and reverse engineer the technology. Leaping you (or whoever gets it!) ahead dramatically.

Not really a 'game' as such, more a feature idea.
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MoLAoS

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2465 on: June 11, 2013, 08:01:45 am »

MOBAs are a fad, like mobile gaming. They're taking market share but not killing it.

Its clear from the arenaization of games like WoW and the multiplayer of GW and GW2 that people desire MOBA like gameplay. And its better that it comes from MOBAs rather than poisoning MMOs. They aren't a fad per say. More like new MOBAs are not going to do anything but split up the existing playerbase. Like what happened with WoW in MMOs. Its not a fad after 8 years but its no longer a growth market.
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hemmingjay

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2466 on: June 11, 2013, 08:08:37 am »

A faithful PC version of the Netrunner card game.

This!
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Sergius

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2467 on: June 11, 2013, 10:42:17 am »

Talking about MMOs: I think a big part of what makes them boring or non-immersive is because the staticness that has been inherited from MUDs. You have a monster, in a location, and it dies, and it respawns. It's the same monster (in some cases with slightly randomized equipment), it just goes away for a nap. The world never changes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 10:50:13 am by Sergius »
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MoLAoS

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2468 on: June 11, 2013, 10:52:16 am »

Talking about MMOs: I think a big part of what makes them boring or non-immersive is because the staticness that has been inherited from MUDs. You have a monster, in a location, and it dies, and it respawns. It's the same monster (in some cases with slightly randomized equipment), it just goes away for a nap. The world never changes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent a long time working on a dynamic world with no NPCs and monster populations expanding and spreading and forming hierarchies. It got pretty detailed but due to the necessity of restricting access to vetted players to prevent griefing its not commercially viable. In fact I don't think compelling worlds will ever be commercially viable. You certainly can't run them on a free to play model.
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Sergius

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2469 on: June 11, 2013, 11:08:37 am »

Talking about MMOs: I think a big part of what makes them boring or non-immersive is because the staticness that has been inherited from MUDs. You have a monster, in a location, and it dies, and it respawns. It's the same monster (in some cases with slightly randomized equipment), it just goes away for a nap. The world never changes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent a long time working on a dynamic world with no NPCs and monster populations expanding and spreading and forming hierarchies. It got pretty detailed but due to the necessity of restricting access to vetted players to prevent griefing its not commercially viable. In fact I don't think compelling worlds will ever be commercially viable. You certainly can't run them on a free to play model.

Well my point was not to make it 100% dynamic and dependent on players, exactly for those same reasons. Anyone in the position to truly change the world (big scale war, town building) would be vetted somehow. And independent players clearing an area would be a general thing (the more mobs you kill, the more peaceful it becomes, and vice versa). Not a lot of griefing that can be made in my model, I would think, and you can always visit less explored areas if you want more mobs. Also, no fixed mob respawns.

I think I already posted in the thread a while ago that I would make it basically Majesty, except the player characters are the heroes... and they get money from "questing" to whatever flag the "sovereign" placed (including contributing to building structures). Except instead of a single King we could have an entire class of politicians in a city (these would be paying customers, or employees, or whatever). And even if griefing is a problem for this, limit the town customization more.
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MoLAoS

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2470 on: June 11, 2013, 11:16:40 am »

If you have never seen the griefing in UO and EQ and even the dissolution of UOs natural environment you don't want to say you can't grief. Players are your enemies.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2471 on: June 11, 2013, 11:33:47 am »

Talking about MMOs: I think a big part of what makes them boring or non-immersive is because the staticness that has been inherited from MUDs. You have a monster, in a location, and it dies, and it respawns. It's the same monster (in some cases with slightly randomized equipment), it just goes away for a nap. The world never changes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think my old iterative Zombie City MMO idea covers all your concerns about permadeath and non-linear character progression and stuff pretty well, but in different ways.  Having the game play out in iterations of a sort, instead of a permanent world would alleviate a lot of issues.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Sergius

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2472 on: June 11, 2013, 12:35:46 pm »

I once read an article (blog post?) by someone who wrote something like that. A game about zombies, and some kind of card "perk" system, maybe it was you? It was a few years ago.

It was one of the sources I used, I was specifically looking for systems that "reward" permadeath but enough that people still want to avoid it. I thought even that normal play would allow you to unlock new skills (or traits) or even new classes, and the only way to use those was to reroll a character.

I wouldn't make the game competitive tho. I'd prefer it to be mainly PvE, and make the PvP have its own influence in the world but not to the point that there's a winning and losing "side", as it can devolve quickly into the winners getting bored that there's little to do, and losers bored that they can't get anything done anymore.

Re: the player/ruler interaction, this was inspired by some fakes that were posted once online before World of Warcraft. They were basically screenshots of Warcraft 3 with some MMO gui superimposed... it gave me the idea, what if the Player-Run City concept was exactly like a Age of Mythology/Warcraft RTS, except people would walk around these buildings in a 3rd person over-the-shoulder kinda way. The Minimap would pretty much look like Warcraft :)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:39:48 pm by Sergius »
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Fniff

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2473 on: June 11, 2013, 02:52:44 pm »

I had an idea for an MMO that I think would avoid the problem of staticness while not ending up completely bare. It's based off the Secret World, but with a little APB thrown in.

Basically, it takes place in an urban fantasy universe. Magic exists, people generally don't know about it, etc etc. Instead of the usual "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE WHO MUST DEFEAT LORD EVILVILE", it'd play like PCs are the power-players of the supernatural world and the NPCs are just people who are involved such as mercenaries, police, or civilians. It would take place in a large, detailed city that has several large sections like the City Narrows, the Commericial District, or the Waterfront. Each of these places would have their own subsections like the steel mills, the posh suburbs, or the red light district. The game itself would have a well-simulated economy: everything you buy from guns to your magical ingredients has a place where it came from (The dockyards or the factories) and places where it's sold. The part that makes it unique is that the players can take over the economic process.

The thing is, players can gain control of shops and divert the money they get from selling their wares over to them. From there, you could alter the prices, change the wares, etc. You wouldn't be actively involved in selling it (An NPC would be there instead), but you'd get some of the profit. Then, if you control the factories that bring them in, you could control how much the shops have to pay to buy your wares. Control enough of the system, you have a monopoly. The problem is that the other players want the money too.

Of course, if you don't want to play the whole "get all the money", you could fight monsters and their nests who would pop up in places and make the subsection dangerous to be in, which would be actively annoying for players who have shops in the subsection. There could be a system where players could contribute to a "bounty" to take out the monster nest which adds up as more players chip in so that any prospective monster hunter can go kill the nest and get the pot of money.

I think this has a nice way of giving a players a direction, a reason for why a world wouldn't be stripped bare, and letting players do their own thing if they don't feel like having to be stuck in a constant gang war to get the most money.

Gruntdonttoot

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #2474 on: June 11, 2013, 08:45:21 pm »

An updated/remade Covert Action.
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