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[ExKirby]

Meh, I autoattack as Venomancer, but the way I see it:

1) It softens up the creeps for the carry. Easy last hit.
2) It slows their creeps down. At level 1 Poison Sting, Venomancer inflicts 11% slow-if we need to back off from creeps, we'll be going faster.
3) It forces the enemies back to the tower, and Venomancer is very good at pushing towers. Plague wards, anyone?
4) Venomancer doesn't need early game last hits, because he can get them in vast waves a bit later when he has full wards and poison.

I'm going to have to play a game with you guys at some point just to see how noobish I am =P

[Alkhemia]

We did IH's a long time ago but people stopped showing up 

[ranter]

The main reason you must NEVER autoattack creeps is that it pushes the lane, making you guys easier to gank. And that's a pretty big deal.
I'm going to be honest, there are a lot of moments where autoattacking the creeps is a good idea, but there are many many more where it's a horrible idea. And if I tell you that you still don't feel the flow of the game well enough to distinguish each other, I would probably be right (There are not many players able to do that until higher skill brackets) So you should stick to not autoattacking the creeps

To counter your arguments
1) Pushes the lane
2) Pushes the lane
3) You need a few levels on wards to effectively push as veno. So early game it is not a good reason to push the lane
4) How does that justifies  pushing the lane?

If you really want to attack something, please try to deny your creeps or harass the enemy. But for god sake, don't pusht he lane.

[ExKirby]

But pushing the lane is fun ;_;

But yeah, I do see your point(s). I do usually end up harassing the enemy with a nice Gale to the face anyway, so it all works out.

[Cthulhu]

Just had a crazy game with Lucky (Rebecca Black on here) and Breadbocks.  It was random draft.  Radiant was Bane, Lycanthrope, Puck, Razor, and Spirit Breaker.  Dire was Naix, Treant, Bloodseeker(Breadbocks), Dazzle (Lucky), and Medusa (me).  The game lasted 75 minutes.  Sorry if that spoils the ending.

They were winning pretty hard at first, Naix had a bitch fit but didn't give up thankfully.  They got our inhibitors down and then pussyfooted around which, given the teamcomps, was a horrible move.  By the time they were ready to go Bread and Naix were in full carry mode and I was b-balling out of control.  They couldn't teamfight us and farming was just making it worse.  After what seemed like forever they went all-in, got demolished, and we pushed for the win in like 30 seconds.

Also the other team's spirit breaker got a speed demon.  Our team just got chests and some shitty omniknight gloves.

[Alkhemia]

well tbh they had no late game
so was it a aggressive trilane with tree/dazzle/naix bloodseeker mid (how did he beat puck) you solo safe lane? 
They have trash lanes
Edit: That puck....built a ult stick when he could of got the money for a sheep bleh

[Cthulhu]

It was Razor/Breaker vs Naix/Treant top, BS mid vs Puck, and the rest.  Yes, they had no late game which is why they lost.

[Kagus]

What *does* Smurf mean anyways?  I remember some observers in a high-skill game talking about Chinese smurfs, but I wasn't entirely sure what that was supposed to entail.

Yeah, I keep running into people who autoattack the creep wave...  Constantly.  To the point where they miss out on 70% of lasthits because the attack was still on cooldown.  As the carry.

I also don't get people who still think it's a good idea with two melees in one lane...  Particularly two melee carries.

Regardless of the specifics though, there's never an excuse for being a dickish idiot and thinking you're better than everyone.  I've seen some pretty bizarre builds out there, but if they're rocking one of the better KDA's on our team I generally just keep my mouth shut and try to learn something...  Sometimes I'll make a comment just to say that I find it interesting.  Hell, I built Vlad's on Pudge and people started freaking out, but I kept up a great (for me, and I'm a horrible Pudge) KDA and folks were fine with it.


As for Cthulhu's game, it's not like you guys had a particularly strong lategame either...  I'd say that both Lycan and Razor can do a pretty decent job with some particular items, or at least as well as Bloodseeker and Naix.  Not to mention Spirit Breaker and his stunlocking with surprisingly high damage...  Medusa was probably your later-game fancy, since she can get particularly interesting with a few items.



Had a co-op game a while back.  Peeps loaded up, we exchanged a couple lines of minor pub banter, and then...  Well, three randoms later, we're a carryteam with 4/5 melee.  AM, Sniper, Juggernaut (Yours Truly), Ursa and Bloodseeker.

I had a hilarious time playing Supporternaut, and we all just had a rather entertaining game where we lost and fed valiantly until Sniper could pick off enough kills to start hitting his peak, and then we managed to push back a double-raxxed midlane and then start munching the bots and turn the tides for a 56-minute win.  Fun times, fun times...

Also, Razor, Kunkka and Omniknight against a team of carries?  Holy fuck we were handing our asses to them, haha...  And that's not even mentioning Necrobot.

[Putnam]

Just tried out Meepo in a bot game.

Shit. It would have been real intense if I hadn't put the bots on passive (I was mostly just trying to see his mechanics etc).

BTW, passive bots? Haha. There was no first blood. The game was won with everyone having a 0/0/0 KDA.

[Frumple]

Kag, smurf's an experienced player who opens up a new account, generally for the express purpose of beating on folks not quite so accustomed to the game for a while. I think it DotA terms it's like a diamond or plat player (or, y'know, someone who regularly places in the top three in major tournaments or whatever) kicking open a new account so they can hammer on bronze folks/people just starting to play the game for a while. Not actually sure what the terminology for DotA (or anything, really ) is, in regards to that, honestly.

Point gets across, I guess. Someone who starts a new account so the matchmaker will match them with folks less skilled than it normally would.

[Kagus]

That's...  Pretty damn impressive, really.  On both sides.  Also a testament to the term "passive" apparently actually meaning something.

What I don't like is that there's such a large gap between "Medium" and "Hard" difficulties, in that Medium bots will completely ignore several crucial parts of the game (denying, harassing, so on) and can be beaten if you just AFK farm in the jungle all game (which I've done once or twice), whereas Hard bots are brutal machines that will utterly annihilate your bot team unless you keep up a perfect match with no missteps or if your bots get really lucky with picks.

This is mostly just due to how stupid bot teams can be and how quickly things snowball into/out of control with them because of how they work together.  With a team of co-op pubbers?  No sweat.  Even with wacked-out teams like our meleecarryteam and my Juggerport.

Kag, smurf's an experienced player who opens up a new account, generally for the express purpose of beating on folks not quite so accustomed to the game for a while.

Ahh, I see.  That...  Makes absolutely no sense as far as etymology is concerned, but sure.  I can see that being nasty.  I'm also fairly certain I've played with or against people who've done that.  But, yeah...  Pretty stupid for 100+ game peeps to be griping about something like that.

[Alkhemia]

Well my account sorta a smurf I play way better then what I q vs but I've played like 800 hour of lol and 400/500 of dota 1 only at 200/300 in dota 2 atm.

[Cthulhu]

The bots are very good at the fundamentals.  Hard bots, when it comes to LH, denies, rune control, and such, are way better than most of the pubs I see.

[Kagus]

Yeah, the rune control is particularly interesting...  I have experienced bots actually going to a rune spawn location and sitting there for a few seconds BEFORE IT SPAWNS.

[Cthulhu]

Sometimes they're excessive yeah.  They're also very very quick reactively.  If you're a ganker, expect to have people zip across lanes in a couple seconds to countergank.

On the bright side, if you can beat hard bots you can probably beat 9/10 pubbies.  I've been playing TA against bots and it's teaching me a lot about guerrilla warfare since even if TA could teamfight she couldn't do it with these stupid fucking bots on my team.