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[Korbac]

Reminds me of that time Lina and SB dual laned mid and killed Sniper 3 times in as many minutes right out of the gate. He eventually switched lanes with a Viper and the kills became more of trades, but we basically transitioned our advantage over one hero to an advantage over two.

The game was more or less decided 10 minutes in as SB got super fat and I was able to Laguna Blade everyone down with ridiculous speed.

Drow Advice

What if she hits you and then back up under tower when you try and hit her? This is what usually happens in my experience. Then you return to the creep line and she hits you again.

Well, I'm no DOTA expert by FAR, but if you have her back at her tower, she should be too far to get xp unless you've been killing off creeps (SHAME!), so that sounds like a win to me.

I suppose this works, but you miss last hits and take damage trying to push Drow back to the tower while she hits you as you return to the creep wave. (I'm assuming mid here)

[Rex_Nex]

If you're a melee without something to close the gap or instapop her, you're just not killing drow without a gank, and yes she will harass you out of the lane.

The trick is not to put up a melee solo against drow.

[umiman]

Mid is a little trickier. The advice I was giving was more towards the side lanes.

Winning mid involves blocking your lane properly, rune control, and waiting a bit. Trade damage with her often, but save up enough mana. Because what you'd want to do is get her just under your kill threshold, and vaporize her once that time comes. Hell, if you managed to pull off a great creep block from the get go, you can kill her for free.

For example, Ranter mentioned Storm Spirit earlier. For SS, this threshold should be level 3. At this point he can get two charges of Overload off with Vortex and Static Remnant. Combined with autoattack damage this is approximately 300 damage, or more than half of Drow's hp. So using what I said above, you'd want to trade blows until she's about 1/2 or 2/3rd hp. Then walk up, combo, and she's dead. Don't ever worry about your hp being too low. As long as you can survive 2 - 3 autoattack hits or about 150 hp you can kill her. Remember, she has no nukes. Her base damage is all there is.

In fact, if you want even more evidence that Drow is completely trouncable by you... just look at the stats of the melee creep.

The melee creep has more hp, movespeed, armour, everything! Than Drow. The only thing he loses is that the melee creep has half of Drow's base damage. If you do enough damage to kill a melee creep, you can kill Drow. Hell... since the melee creep has twice her armour and 100 more hp, you could kill Drow 30% more efficiently than a melee creep.

Seriously. Punch her in the face.

[lemon10]

Did you know: There are two different types of gold in DOTA 2?

Reliable gold: All golf from hero kills, tower kills, and roshan.
Unreliable gold: All other gold (creep kills, money over time ect).

When you die you can't lose any gold from your reliable gold pool.
Buying items uses unreliable gold first.
Buying back uses reliable gold first.

Just thought that I would throw that out there for everybody that didn't know since I just found it out myself.

[Korbac]

Ye I suppose Drow isn't that good really. She's a bit like Ursa. She's dangerous once she gets advantages and can get them fairly easily (i.e. noobs like me not outlaning her.) However it's pretty easy to stop her before this happens and even after it's happened there are still one or two things that can defeat them.

When I realised countering Ursa was as simple as warding Rosh, then I was laughing. (and occasionally crying when I ping the pit after Ursa's gone in and I tell everyone he's there and nobody does anything)

[Glowcat]

Well, I'm no DOTA expert by FAR, but if you haver her back at her tower, she should be too far to get xp unless you've been killing off creeps (SHAME!), so that sounds like a win to me.

This is only applicable in the side lanes but even then I feel that umiman's hypothetical Drow is really really bad at kiting. Trying to go in with a 300 range Vortex against a level 2 or even level 1 range 625 frost arrow is extremely dangerous if she's on her toes and expecting it. 11% or 24% might not sound like much but that's enough to let her back out of situations her opponent goes all aggressive in unless they've a disable, chase ability, or boots advantage. Add to that any smart drow being ready with silence if she's laning against a magic user like Storm Spirit and it's not as easy to punch her face. Even against a solo spirit breaker I think she'll have an advantage early on, though SB is also one of her counters imo once he gets a few levels under his belt.

On the other hand, when you've got a 2v2 laning situation she IS much more vulnerable than other heroes and has to play it extremely safe. If she isn't paired with somebody who can counter disable she can pretty easily be taken out and ganks ruin her (slightly alleviated with a Shadowblade in most pub games where people don't buy dust or wards). Long range nukes can also give her a lot of trouble. However, even then it's pretty easy for her to at least stay within XP range (denying against her is important) and once she gets level 6 she can begin to catch up if your team's gank machine isn't online and painting her with a bullseye.

She's very much like Sniper except she focuses on kiting more and has some added utility whereas Sniper is pretty much all about the DPS and really annoying mini-stuns once his attack speed gets high enough.

[ranter]

The problem with your advice, Umi, is that in a side lane there are usually two heroes. And if one of them is drow, chances are that the other is a guy like lion or venomancer (If it is not, lower your expectations about the enemy skill level), which makes the whole "Go and punch her in the face" a bit trickier. Add a 3 secs silence for both of you and you have a serious problem.. As I said, it's like old lycan: Either you dedicate loads of effort to shut her down early game, or you are going to have to face her on her own terms. And you don't want that.
And as I said, drow with a shadow blade is a ganking machine: 150 extra damage, 6 sec silence and a 50% slow. As long as she has numerical superiority, one guys ends up dead from that gank. Unless we are talking about undying or omniknight.

And about sniper mid againsst ss: The main problems were two
A) The range allowed him to go under his tower whenever I got close to him. And getting under a tower at level 3 or 4 is a bad idea.
B) The fact that headshot proc chance is now the same at all levels, makes sitting between sniper and the creeps, trying to zone him, a bad idea. Those 40 damage potshots suddenly double their damage about once every two times at level three.
That lane would have been really easy if I had a gank or two, but as I said before, nobody ganks mid early in a pub.

[umiman]

You guys are making me want to break out the "1v1 mid argument" lol.

In any case I will never ever ever lose a lane to a sniper or drow. It'll never happen.... Well actually a trilane with them in it would probably roflstomp me.

Or surprise ganks.

Or clockwerk or profit or invoker global hurting me while I break her.

This reminds me of the time my team got obliterated by a trilaning Ursa protected by cm and kotl. 11 minute blink dagger and vlads. Oh god....

[Korbac]

I should be able to game with you guys this weekend!

[LASD]

I remember lecturing the LoL guys about this a few years ago. I think it was about that rat guy waaaaay back when he was "overpowered".

I thought about this exact thing when I was playing against Tusk. When he threw the ice wall around me and came to hit me, I didn't try to run around the spikes wasting time. I just punched Tusk in the face until he backed away and the wall disappeared.

[Glowcat]

Getting into a face punching match with Tusk sounds like a bad idea. Tusk punches all the faces.

[crazysheep]

Until he runs out of mana.

And I'm going to have to try out the advice on handling Drow, might be fun to counter Drow somehow.

[Glowcat]

Until he runs out of mana.

And I'm going to have to try out the advice on handling Drow, might be fun to counter Drow somehow.

If you're talking about later in the game either a Ghost Scepter or Heaven's Halberd can mess up her damage output during silence and give you a chance to retaliate properly. The Halberd has the additional benefit of protecting team mates and giving you some natural survivability not related to its disarm ability.

[Korbac]

I saw a Support Doom the other day.

It's an interesting choice - you have a ranged stun (from creeps), a nuke, and a powerful ulti without really needing any gold, and if the game drags on you can become another carry.

[Simmura McCrea]

Yeah, I've seen a support Naga Siren too. Disable that ignores BKB, armour reduction and illusions to push and tank bouncing spells? Along with the "oops, no gank for you" ulti? Hell yeah.