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Author Topic: Dota 2  (Read 241917 times)

lavenders2

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #390 on: May 13, 2012, 01:16:43 am »

Yup, Phantom Lancer is just as overpowered as I remember. Maybe more so, because I played him in the days before bottle and magic stick. Slow to start, just like any carry, but get a perseverance (which leads into a Linkens) early on, and you become extremely infuriating to kill, not to mention having a ~250 damage nuke on a few second cooldown. End with Diffusal/Linkens/Power Treads most games. If I ever have a game that lasts more than 30 minutes then I'd build a Heart (for those uber tanky illusions), Manta (because MORE illusions, and movespeed is nice), and Butterfly. Skeleton King won't know what hit his resurrection.

Seems they nerfed the proc chance on his passive though. Not that he needed more, because illusions that spawn illusions gets ridiculous after you have at least two up. And I don't remember getting magic armor on his ultimate either. But more loving for my second favorite hero.

Now, if they get Meepo in there...

I always hated illusions from Phantom Lancer but he is still balanced for many reasons:
1. Dust/Gem reveals the real lancer
2. Burst damage against all the illusions will reveal the real lancer, because the real one has more health.
3. When the real one is revealed somehow, he is easily focused down
4. On top of this, some abilities (like the BH's track ultimate ability) allow you to mark the real Lancer once you know which one it is. You can also ping the real Lancer so the whole team knows.
5. Mana cost.

So yeah, he is balanced as far as I know, but he wrecks in pub games and in most DOTA2 games in general because some people are getting invites to the game, when they have never played DOTA before, and are getting stomped by good players. Most players I have seen are very good though.

On a side note, since I play Bounty Hunter the most, how good is he? He is meant to be a ganker from what I have gathered, but what about late game? Does he become a carry later on?
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Alg

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #391 on: May 13, 2012, 03:37:28 am »

On a side note, since I play Bounty Hunter the most, how good is he? He is meant to be a ganker from what I have gathered, but what about late game? Does he become a carry later on?

He's decent and can fit pretty well in ganking lineups.  His carry potential his pretty good too, certainly not on par with heroes such as Specter, Faceless Void, Antimage and such, but still good. The thing is, he is a very momentum based hero, kinda like Tiny, queen of Pain, Storm Spirit... If he manage to get a few kills Track gives him a ridiculous amount of gold, which he'll use to get better stuff, kill more heroes, and so on until he buys a Divine Rapier and one-shots everyone. But if he gets shut down early, his only hope will be to track people and hope his team can kill them, because he will die too soon to be of use.
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Lumbajak

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #392 on: May 13, 2012, 03:50:45 am »

Bounty Hunter is one of the hardest carries, you get ridiculous amounts of gold off successful uses of the ult, and once you build up enough damage you can oneshot a lot of heroes.

It's way easier to get farm on him than most other carries, due to the ult.

Not sure how well he holds up in competitive play, though.

Also, Faceless Void is good and all, and especially in pubs if you get off decent ults, but he's entirely luck based and in competitive play no one falls for the ult, and most people have force staff for when you actually land it.
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Rez

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #393 on: May 13, 2012, 05:03:38 am »

BH isn't really a great carry and definitely isn't a hard carry.  Mediocre farm ability mean he's entirely dependent on ganks and his ult for money, which requires that his team have good teamwork and more or less constant ganking.  Mediocre hp gain and the imperative to go straight damage items mean to maximize his potential you'll be squishy more or less the whole game. While he can pump awesome 'crits' with jinada, jinada will always have at least 6 seconds of cd, whereas a hero with buriza can get many crits in that same period.

To boot, he's a 'stealth' hero.  An integral part of his hero is windwalk, which doesn't help at all late game, particularly if he's pumping damage, because most teams facing potent invis heroes will buy a gem and throw it on their tank.  Since his hp is meh, unless you specifically build to fix it, if you see bh coming, he's boned.

That said, his track has the potential to earn his team a whole lot of money.  A maximum of 850 extra gold for each hero killed while tracked is enormous and the ms % is huge (that's a 4250 if it's a 5v5 and his team wins with no hero losses!) .  Shuriken ministuns and, while he can't out-carry many actual carries, his burst is quite high, especially once he gets desolator and medallion, which makes him perfect for killing squishy nukers and isolated farmers.  He's an enormous asset to his team.

IMO, he's much better played as semi-carry/support, with the team having a more conventional carry to rely on.  If he gets a rocky start, he'll have an incredibly hard time getting the items he needs to carry and that's what makes him so much inferior to the more popular carries like lycan and am, who's ease of farm will let them get their key items by 20 minutes, essentially no matter what the enemy team does

I'm pretty sure the reason why we aren't seeing void in pro matches is because he requires quite a bit of farm to do well (he does need more than MoM ;D).  While games are starting to last longer, push strategies are still prominent and effective.  If he wasn't picked because his ult was easy to counter and avoid, we wouldn't see enigma get picked either and we see enigma in every other game.


PL's pretty weak, since he has such big mana issues and needs quite a bit of farm.  If you can find the real one (pretty easy if you've got aoe), he's quite easy to kill until he gets some big tank items.

I'm actually interested to see if KOTL can stop early pushes altogether.  If wave can slow down chen and enchantress pushes, we might see kotl in dota 2 pro play!  Also looking forward to medusa and the few other people will spells that pierce magic immunity.
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Rez

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #394 on: May 13, 2012, 05:11:11 am »

Regarding when dota 2 will be out of beta... in at least a year.  They've released one hero over the past month.  There are 32 unreleased heroes.  I can't imagine that we'll see release immediately after all the heroes are complete.  It's quite possible that they'll drop a bunch of heroes a month before the international though.  It'd be a good way to mix it up.

doublepost <_< >_>
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #395 on: May 13, 2012, 05:50:54 am »

I hate to ruin your mojo dudes...

But truesight doesn't reveal the real hero from the illusions.

How to deal with Phantom Lancer:
- squash his early game
- AOE his illusions and pray to RNG that he doesn't get more
- Be someone like Obsidian Destroyer who can instagib illusions
- Hire a crippled, wheelchair-bound person to impersonate one of his species, before the leader of his race, and somehow drive off a highly superior invasion force with bows and arrows and dinosaurs

How to deal with Gondar:
- Gem of True Sight / Dust
- Complain endlessly to team to buy gem / dust
- Blame everyone

Lumbajak

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #396 on: May 13, 2012, 01:18:07 pm »

If he wasn't picked because his ult was easy to counter and avoid, we wouldn't see enigma get picked either and we see enigma in every other game.

Keeping in mind Void's ult requires much better positioning for your teammates to be able to get in on the action; Enigma's ult doesn't affect allies.
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Alkhemia

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #397 on: May 13, 2012, 01:47:13 pm »

I think my new favorite hero is Outworld Destroyer he just so fun at least tell Siren get in
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #398 on: May 13, 2012, 02:02:11 pm »

I wouldnt say Voids ult requires better positioning; while Void should try, he doesn't need to get everyone in his ult. Enigmas is channeling, meaning if even one hero is nearby and doesnt get sucked into his ult, he will just get disabled.

They are about even. Enigma's ult requires good positioning to cast without being disabled, and Void's ult requires good positioning to be useful to anyone but himself.
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Lumbajak

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #399 on: May 13, 2012, 02:32:49 pm »

Well, all my knowledge is first hand in pubs, I haven't been paying much attention to competitive play like my one pal who is apparently the best ever at this game unless he randoms a support.

Radiance is the best item in the game by the way, 6 Radiances all day every day win all games pro strat 5ever
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Rez

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #400 on: May 13, 2012, 02:37:24 pm »

inorite?!!?!  8) I actually prefer getting MoM, deso, skadi, mjollnir, BoT, and satanic.  Best build ever.
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #401 on: May 13, 2012, 02:43:40 pm »

5 sange > 5 radiance, npnp. best item build ever, all chinapros agree
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kilakan

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #402 on: May 14, 2012, 06:38:20 pm »

So, I just had to post this... :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yea... we won
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #403 on: May 14, 2012, 08:25:17 pm »

youwontseethatinleague.png
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2
« Reply #404 on: May 14, 2012, 08:46:09 pm »

What would that image even look like?

A double Zeus ulti? Skeleton King reviving 5 times? Furion farming the whole map at once? 12 Phantom Lancers on the battlefield? 4 Warlock golems?
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