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[ranter]

Talking aboiut jerks... Where is now the mute button? I cannot manage to find it now. The place where it was doesn't works now.

I went 12 8 14 and carried hard as Sivir Luna getting only E and W. Still lost sadly, but it was more of a team comp thing.

And I can carry with pugna.

Yeah, Pugna is amazingly awesome, as long as they don't have a stun of some sort. Push lanes like crazy, make other nukers do more than full damage with spells, and rape other mages with ease. Then get an Aghanims, and enjoy the 300 damage per second, 0 second cooldown ultimate.

Whenever i see a storm spirit or another mana whore like enchantress in the other team, I pick him. WHERE'S YOUR BLOODSTONE NOW, HUH?
Lovely lovely nether ward.

[Astral]

And that's the kind of Pugna I hate to face, especially as a Storm Spirit or Obsidian Destroyer, but I don't see him that often.

[Rez]

Disrupter is ds level positioning and teamfight.  That's all.  I'm butthurt.

[Putnam]

God damn I have no idea what I'm doing.

I love lone druid though. I've helped win two matches as him now :3

[Azurestrike]

I don't want to sound lazy, but after a search for steam group within this topic, I haven't been able to find a B12 Dota 2 steam group. If there is one, can someone invite me into it? It'd be great to team up with other B12 people in Dota 2 when my friends are busy. We could just mess around with bots if people aren't comfortable pubbing too.

[Astral]

Played Luna. Got left alone for half the game, allowing me to free farm. They didn't have any real stuns aside from Vengeful Spirit, so I didn't need a BKB. Ended up with a Butterfly and Satanic. Rape entire enemy team. Easy enough, but I felt sorry for the Phantom Assassin top who had to solo because Axe thought it was a good idea to jungle, leaving the poor squishy agility carry in the capable hands of myself and Zeus.

No offense, because I do like League in its own way, but too many League players seem to think that jungling is a requirement nowadays. There are very few heroes that can pull it off in DotA, let alone those that can pull it off well and end up useful enough to gank afterwards.

[Rez]

Having a jungler is awesome but it requires so much coordination and cooperation from a team that it's a no-go unless you're at least 3 man pre-made.  And yea, there are only 2 or 3 heroes that actually jungle faster than they could farm in lane and it requires that you pick a long lane solo and a mid solo.  Way too hard for most teams.

[Bordellimies]

But jungling is much more fun and challenging too.

In LoL, you basically run the same route once, then either gank or repeat. Repeat the route, gank if possible, if not, repeat route, etc.. Gets very boring.
In DotA, you have creep stacking and creep pulling, you have multiple types of neutrals and multiple levels of them too, you can use Helm of the Dominator or Chen or soemthing to use them as extra help, and so on. Engima is very cool to jungle as well, since there aren't really all that many mages in LoL who can jungle, Fiddles being the only "real" one.

[Astral]

Don't get me wrong, PokeChen was one of the best junglers of his time because of the way you could constantly get the Centaurs (with the 2 second stun, and attack speed aura), Trolls (with the 1.5 second ranged net) and maybe a Satyr to round it out (for the life regen aura), grab 5 creeps and then Roshan before most people are even thinking about it. Then push all of the outer towers as the enemy team is either helpless to stop you, fodder for your 1500-2000 health creeps, or is porting in reinforcements causing them to lose experience

But as was said above, it requires a lot of coordination to pull off successfully. I rarely even see Chen played much, though I used to be extremely good at microing him and his minions. He falls off extremely hard late game, though, with no stun aside from what his minions can provide.

The creep stacking is one of the mechanics I've loved and hated, as if you do it well (especially as a carry, if you get Helm of the Dominator and stack the ancients with your dominated creep while you farm a lane, then go rape the triple stack) you become much harder to stop due to an increased gold flow, but if you are off by a second or get the wrong type of random creeps, you can be shit out of luck. Some Chen runs left me with no Centaurs, meaning no stuns, meaning a much harder time of ganking.

[umiman]

At first I was like...

"PokeChen? What's that? Some pro player's name?"

Then I was like....

"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....."

I should call him that, along with Nature's Profit.

[Astral]

Yeah, PokeChen (or Pokemon Master Chen) was our nickname for jungle/creep master Chen. It fit entirely too well, considering my one friend's ability to absolutely wreck pubs with him. Or her, in Heroes of Newerth.

[Rex_Nex]

I think stacking should honestly be taken out. You might need to compensate with something else, but Valve/Icefrog should do their best to limit the amount of "abuse mechanics to play better" things now that they aren't hindered by the system. Stacking was never what Ice wanted when he made creeps; it was just the outcome of players abusing Warcraft's trigger system and getting multiple spawns.

Its just a little too spoilery for me. A lot of DotA players view this kind of change as "simplifying the game" though, so I guess these mechanics have to be left in or they will scream bloody murder.

[Rez]

I think I'm not alone in saying:

wat

[Jafferey]

t was just the outcome of players abusing Warcraft's trigger system and getting multiple spawns

Creeps don't respawn in Warcraft 3 (??)

[Rex_Nex]

Not normally, no. You need to code it in yourself.

They way it works is the trigger checks for two things:

1. Are creeps there already?

2. Is any hero within view of their spawning location?

If both of these come back as "No", the trigger spawns creeps. So naturally, what do players do? They memorize the intervals at which the trigger procs, and right before it does they pull the creeps away from the spawn location. Tada, now you have two sets of creeps and even more farm from abusing the trigger.

It is actually a very big boon; there's videos of extremely good junglers getting 3+ creep camps to double spawn at once from doing this.

The fix to this is relatively simple; instead of checking if creeps are in the spawning area, simply check if the creeps that were spawned last are still alive. Tadah, no more abuse.