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[umiman]

Garen, for the longest time, was considered one of the worst heroes in the game. That's because the general public is generally stupid and uncreative and played him like everyone else. He has an atrocious, useless lategame. Is only viable in the early game. And he only has one single skill that's useful, the other being for killstealing.

So why is Garen amazing? Because when it comes to early game. He is the absolute king. There is literally no one you want to run into in the early game other than Garen. If Garen catches you anywhere between levels 1 - 12, you're basically dead. It's almost guaranteed. He doesn't care about farming. He doesn't care about ganking. He wants to somehow get his giant, fat-ass, scarf next to you and press Q. Then you die.

It's the same here. You can argue that Juggernaut is kinda the same, but Jugg doesn't have a stun. Nor is his movespeed as high as Aurels. Nor does his Q cost barely any mana. Nor is he ranged.

So it's not about skills, nor about tankiness. It's about playstyle. Because Aurel's playstyle is literally identical to Garen. I have no doubt that in my hands, and selected against the appropriate enemies, I can make people scream "GYRO OP!" without any effort.

For the LoL players. Imagine if you gave Garen a long distance, guaranteed hit stun for 2.5 seconds which at max level can hit for anywhere between 440 to 600 damage. In exchange you took away a good portion of his tankability. I give you Gyrocopter.



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tl;dr: Ignore late game. Only focus on killing straight from level 1 and troll enemies to kingdom come with your ludicrous early game damage.

[em312s0n]

I don't get why people think Gyro is useless. He basically owns in mid lane and can guarantee a kill in ganks with his long range, aoe slow with decent damage. Teamfights? hes practically made for teamfights! AOE all over the place bro. If your team gets set up by an AOE disable(chronosphere, blackhole) or even just a AOE slow with Gyro firing all of his damn rockets, you know your team is dead.

I guess its just the case that people don't know how to play him effectively yet.

[Rex_Nex]

Gyro has been out for, what, 8 months? A year? He's been around for a long time. He's a new addition to DotA 2, but he has had a lot of time to get someone to "unlock his potential" in plain old DotA.

His problems:

His harassment tool is mediocre. Flak Cannons do mediocre damage over a relatively long period of time, during which the enemy hero has to both stay within the AoE and not go into fog. He has a unreliable stun that isn't worth the mana unless the enemy runs a fair distance, and if they do run, it will take a long time for the missile to reach them. They might be safe by that time. He has a missile salvo that will rip apart people who try to dive at him early game, but quickly lose a lot of power as the game drags on. His ultimate is good, but dodgable if you try to set it up within view of your target.

He also has severe problems with his squishyness. He has extremely low HP, and no reliable stuns or slows to get away when things get hairy until level 6, when he can waste his ultimate to get away.

His ultimate is good in combination with other AoE disables, sure, but as more heroes come out you will notice his ultimate is outclassed. Magnataur, for example, can chain in ~1000 damage with max level spells, along with a 4 second stun instead of a puny slow. Earthshaker already outclasses his ultimate.

[Rez]

He's not a terrible hero, but he fills a role that isn't really useful.  Squishy gankers who turn into semi-carries aren't particularly useful, because pros are good enough to kill them and avoid situations that let them get fed.  It's too much of a gamble to hope your carry gets fed kills.

[Bitoru]

Garen, for the longest time, was considered one of the worst heroes in the game. That's because the general public is generally stupid and uncreative and played him like everyone else. He has an atrocious, useless lategame. Is only viable in the early game. And he only has one single skill that's useful, the other being for killstealing.

So why is Garen amazing? Because when it comes to early game. He is the absolute king. There is literally no one you want to run into in the early game other than Garen. If Garen catches you anywhere between levels 1 - 12, you're basically dead. It's almost guaranteed. He doesn't care about farming. He doesn't care about ganking. He wants to somehow get his giant, fat-ass, scarf next to you and press Q. Then you die.

It's the same here. You can argue that Juggernaut is kinda the same, but Jugg doesn't have a stun. Nor is his movespeed as high as Aurels. Nor does his Q cost barely any mana. Nor is he ranged.

So it's not about skills, nor about tankiness. It's about playstyle. Because Aurel's playstyle is literally identical to Garen. I have no doubt that in my hands, and selected against the appropriate enemies, I can make people scream "GYRO OP!" without any effort.

For the LoL players. Imagine if you gave Garen a long distance, guaranteed hit stun for 2.5 seconds which at max level can hit for anywhere between 440 to 600 damage. In exchange you took away a good portion of his tankability. I give you Gyrocopter.



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tl;dr: Ignore late game. Only focus on killing straight from level 1 and troll enemies to kingdom come with your ludicrous early game damage.

Sorry, but your theory still doesn't seem make a whole lot of sense. It's not like Gyro is the only hero with nuke potential in the game.

[umiman]

Hrm? Theory? What theory? You guys are seriously starting to confuse me to the point where I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my writing style.

I'm just saying he plays like Garen. I'm not claiming he's the best or anything. Just that I really like that kind of playstyle and I think people are playing him wrongly. I don't see why everyone has such a hard time understanding that.

What exactly do you guys think I'm saying?

[Rez]

Nuke potential after 10 minutes isn't the point.  His nuke potential is quite high from level one. His Q scales from 330-600 damage, while his W scales from 110-440 at max damage.  The DPS on rocket barrage at level one is 110 per sec.  Compare that to a similar skill in edict, which does mixed (so the comparison is definitely flawed, but still informative) 50 dps.  For a comparison, gyro does 27 physical dps with his auto attack.  Another comparison: lvl 1 scream does 85 magic damage.  Lvl 1 avalanche is 100 damage.  Shuriken deals 100 damage.  The point is, he has a spell that deals 247.5 damage on someone with base magic resistance at level one, which is almost half of many heroes hp in the early game.  Many of the nukers you're referring too don't do more than 75 damage with their nukes early game.

I'm doing proper theorycrafting and gyro looks good from that standpoint.  He's equipped to do a lot more damage than almost every hero early game.  However,  gyro is not a very good hero, specifically because he needs to roll all over people and then he won't even carry.

I agree that he plays similarly to garen, but garen is honestly more like jug, but not useful since they gave him axes ult and I don't think shallow grave exists in LoL.

If you know of a hero that does more dps from level one or 2, let me know.  I haven't found them and I'm scared to play against them if they exist.

[Bitoru]

Nuke potential after 10 minutes isn't the point.  His nuke potential is quite high from level one. His Q scales from 330-600 damage, while his W scales from 110-440 at max damage.  The DPS on rocket barrage at level one is 110 per sec.  Compare that to a similar skill in edict, which does mixed (so the comparison is definitely flawed, but still informative) 50 dps.  For a comparison, gyro does 27 physical dps with his auto attack.  Another comparison: lvl 1 scream does 85 magic damage.  Lvl 1 avalanche is 100 damage.  Shuriken deals 100 damage.  The point is, he has a spell that deals 247.5 damage on someone with base magic resistance at level one, which is almost half of many heroes hp in the early game.  Many of the nukers you're referring too don't do more than 75 damage with their nukes early game.

I'm doing proper theorycrafting and gyro looks good from that standpoint.  He's equipped to do a lot more damage than almost every hero early game.  However,  gyro is not a very good hero, specifically because he needs to roll all over people and then he won't even carry.

I agree that he plays similarly to garen, but garen is honestly more like jug, but not useful since they gave him axes ult and I don't think shallow grave exists in LoL.

If you know of a hero that does more dps from level one or 2, let me know.  I haven't found them and I'm scared to play against them if they exist.

Unless you're playing against potatoes, you won't ever have a chance to get all of the hits from his Q on the enemy early on. Meanwhile, Lina's Q costs the same mana at level 1, has a 1.5 seconds longer cooldown, better range, is very easy to land from a range, deals 110 reliable area damage and is supported by Lina's _much_ better starting Int and Int gain.
Disregarding this, I really like playing Gyro, but it's clear that he doesn't really excel at any role and I don't think he fits in Agi.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, at least he's not Alchemist

[Rex_Nex]

If you know of a hero that does more dps from level one or 2, let me know.  I haven't found them and I'm scared to play against them if they exist.

DPS? Probably not. A more destructive level 1 spell? Look no further then Juggernaut. Blade Fury does 400 damage before reductions over 5 seconds, Rocket Barrage deals 330 damage over 3 seconds. Jugg, however has these advantages:

1. Hes better equipped to get up close to use it.
2. It will do the damage regardless of whether the target is in the fog.
3. It deals 400 damage regardless of how many creeps are also in range (Barrage will be completely ruined if even one creep is nearby)
4. It makes Juggy magic immune, meaning he isn't going to be disabled while chasing the target around for those 5 seconds.

Gyro doesn't really have that massive early game damage potential that people say. Is it good? Yes, definitely! The best? No. And Gyro has heaps of other problems throughout the entire game that varies from being a terrible agi carry, no escape options, unreliable stun, mana issues, etc. And again, getting the full damage out of barrage is terribly hard.

[Rez]

intentionallymissingthepoint.jpg

[Rex_Nex]

You asked...

[Bitoru]

intentionallymissingthepoint.jpg

And here was I thinking you were serious. Silly me.

[umiman]

Rubick the Grand Magus is out. He's the guy who steals spells from everyone, except now he's not stopped by the engine limitations of Warcraft 3.

While fiddling around with him though, I found out he's very strange. He requires way more skill, patience and luck to execute things unlike the original holder of the skill... which I guess balances him out somewhat. Because while the initial impression of someone being able to steal basically anything on a whim might seem broken, there's a hell of a lot more to it than that.

To keep it simple, it's kinda like this. Imagine if Tidehunter were to ult, his skill process would be something like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. Walk / blink into as many people as possible.
2. Ult.

Easy peasy, a baby could do it.

But now consider if Rubick wanted to get that ult and use it himself. Here's what he has to do:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. Survive Tidehunter's ult somehow, either by standing outside or bkb or something along those lines.
2. Get in range to steal that skill.
3. Make sure you get that ult before Tidehunter uses something else.
4. Survive the 2 seconds it takes for the ult to be transferred over.
5. Walk / Force Staff / Blink into as many people as possible.
6. Ult.

It's like 3x more complicated, which is a pretty big deal in an intense game like this. In a hectic teamfight it's very easy to get confused in between any of those steps and screw up somehow, possibly ending up stealing Anchor Smash and be completely useless.

Anyway, he's out. He's fun definitely, but probably not very good in my hands haha.

[Rez]

I like rubick, he's pretty fun, but you really described his problem.  For the big game changing ults, you both have to survive them as a squishy int and get in position to both steal them and cast them.  All before the target hero casts another spell, which is pretty fast if it's a hero like roofie, tide, or sk, who all have really good skills to cast immediately after their ult to intentional spoil your steal.  The feeling of stealing ults is soooo nice though.

On the plus side, a few spells that have long cast times, such as furion's tp and sniper's ult, have practically no cast time when they get stolen by rubick.  So you can steal the tp and have an insta-cast tp.

Do you think we'll see him as a counter-pick to leshrac?

[Rex_Nex]

I think that's just the half of it. Not only do you have to survive, but now you have a skill that probably doesn't synergize at all with Rubick or his skills. Skillsets are built around heroes so they can use them effectively.