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[PenguinOverlord]

I'd be willing to help out some new players, though I'm pretty new myself.

[aenri]

Well, yes Necro can carry, no question about it, but when your team has better carry (or heaven forbid 2,3,4 carries) there is no other choice but to support. Skeleton playing support is just plain stupid, Necro playing support is good (and he also has a stun!). The key is in item independence. Skeleton without Armlet/other dmg item is big creep, Necro is great even without any item thanks to heal/sadist.

Ang I will also help out anyone who wants, but I warn you, I will criticize anything I can .

[Rex_Nex]

Necro is a little item based, but in an odd way. He has to build himself up to be tanky; lots of HP and MP do him well. His entire skillset (except his ulti) is based on staying alive among many opponents for as long as possible. So, naturally, he needs lots of things to keep him alive and build up his mana reserves. Things like Bloodstone, Vanguard, Shivas, etc. These are pretty expensive items, too.

Of course, you can always forgo this for more support items, but like you said with "there are better carries", there are also better supports. That's kind of the issue with him. He is a in between guy, and the things he is in between do not synergize. Being a good support doesn't make you carry harder, and carrying harder doesn't increase your support capabilities.

[umiman]

Exactly my point. Thanks for elaborating better Rex.

It's what I meant by you might as well just support SK. Using an unoptimized character for the role. It's just weird and doesn't make any sense to me since all he has is his super pushy heal to support with that gets both lane people dead because they're always stuck at the enemy's tower. If you want to play a ward buyer, there's just so many other better choices. Heroes that actually don't change at all regardless if they had 10,000 gold or 3,000 gold. Heroes like Tidehunter and Crystal Maiden.

That's why I think he should be played a carry, like in mid. Because now all his super pushy abilities can actually do crazy things to an enemy. And a hyper-tanky Necro is just ridiculous to fight against considering literally every single one of his skills involves him sitting around putting out strong DPS for a damn long time. Compared to a super squishy support Necro 3 levels behind everyone that dies the instant Vengeful Spirit swaps him.


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I mean, let's look at Death Prophet. Her playstyle is virtually identical to Necro save the instagibbing. She becomes super tanky, and runs circles around enemies in teamfights putting out powerful, consistent DPS. She's never ever ever ever considered a support. Everyone knows she needs items to do her thing. She can't just grab a blink dagger like Sand King and call it a day. That and she doesn't have a heal (for others). Is just a heal enough to turn someone into a ward bitch? I say thee nay! Fight for the rights of our undead brethren to be considered carries!

[LASD]

Even though I like Necro a lot, I think I have to agree. As a support everyone instantly focuses me. Which is understandable, who wouldn't want to kill the guy spamming 400-1000 worth of heals every 5 seconds (to say nothing of the damage). So what I end up doing in a fight is activating Mek, getting 1 or 2 Qs off, then either dying or making it out with the skin off my teeth. Some lucky times I live long enough to ult someone who's not at full health.

Still, these fights usually end with mostly just me dying from our team, so I'm helping, but it could be more fun.

[aenri]

Oh, I'm not against semi-carry Necro when it is possible for your team lineup. But more often than not in pubs, there is better (read: harder) carry than you. Question is why do you choose Necro then? Answer is, that in pubs people disregard enemy pick/own team pick when choosing heroes. I'm not saying you should always be wardbitch as Necro, but if there is no better hero for it...
Playing without wards is like being a three-day kitten - blind and deaf.

I said he is item independent, not that he wouldn't profit from them. Even heroes like CM and Tide have very nice items to get (Blink Dagger for both, BKB for CM). Their problem is they can't really farm well so they never get them, but Necro can. You can even rush Radiance with Necro and own hard, if you get it soon enough. Thats another problem, you got to end the game soon after you get some items (Meka, Hood, Vanguard, Radiance), you need to push hard and organized (problem in pubs) or you will eventually lose to harder carry.

Yes, Krobelus (Death Prophet) and also Dark Seer (maybe even Jakiro) are all this pushing tanky style. But true INT pushing carries are only Furion and Exort Invoker.

[Fiskav]

Do we have any idea as to when Dota 2 will go out of beta? 

[Rex_Nex]

I could give you a good idea if someone can clue me into the current number of heroes in DotA 2.

[umiman]

http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Unreleased_Content

[ThtblovesDF]

Oh look, it's the Demoman!
http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Goblin_Techies

[umiman]

They're pretty fun to play.

Most people grab their suicide at level 1 and just run into lane constantly and blow themselves up for super easy first bloods. Suicides don't lose you gold and don't give the enemy any benefits either.

[Rex_Nex]

IIRC the enemy still gets 1/2 XP, much like if you deny a creep.

[umiman]

Depends on whether you kill them or not.

If you killed them, then they don't get anything and you get the gold. If you didn't kill them but managed to suicide anyway, they get assist gold and exp.

But chances are you're going to have killed them. It's freaking 600 damage at level 1, that's an instakill on everyone. xD Even the 1500 damage at level 4 is basically an instakill on almost everyone.

[Rex_Nex]

Not everyone. Maybe most of the ranged ints, albeit its going to be hard to get that close to one. Its 300 magical damage + 300 physical. So you do the normal 20% reduction bla bla bla... lets assume our opponent has 22% damage reduction from armor. Not really sure what the starting reduction is for a lot of heroes.

240 magical damage + 234 Physical, so 474 damage. Thats enough to kill a lot INT and AGI, but almost all of them are pretty long ranged...

Still, nitpicking. I get your point, yea, its a ton of damage.

[aenri]

Litlle clarification - Suicide is 650 dmg total. Heroes have innate 25% magic resistance, so 243 magic dmg, and every point of armor is 6% EHP increase (and starting armor can range from 0 to 6). So for 2 armor hero (most common value), it would take 290 physical dmg. So all in all 533 dmg with full blast (which will kill/bring to brink of death almost every squishy hero).

Sorry for that, but I had to