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[umiman]

How to counter KotL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmNxi0bRx8&feature=youtu.be

[etgfrog]

wait...blademail returns magical damage? interesting...

[umiman]

Hrm. Blademail's a funny one.

I believe it returns ALL damage after your own resistances are counted and the damage is returned as pure damage. However, this pure damage can be blocked by magic immunity.

So if you're Axe and you use Berserker's Call then Blademail, the return damage will be the amount that's reduced by your armour but the damage being returned isn't reduced unless they're completely immune to it.

Almost all the damage return things in the game work on different principles so it can get quite confusing. For example, Centaur's return is fixed and calculated the moment you right click him. So even if you cancel the autoattack, you will still take damage. This also means if you do the animation cancelling thing on Centaur, you can instagib yourself.

[Kagus]

Yeah, 'course it does.  That's why it can seriously backfire on someone like Huskar, since he deals damage to himself and then gets the damage he deals back on him.  Life Break is magic damage.

In any case, that's absolutely glorious...  I laughed heartily.  Of course, slightly specialized teamwork right there, but hey...  Good for a show.


Just did a test on something, and found that Slark's stolen agility from Essence Shift does, indeed, factor into the blast done by Ethereal Blade.  Also, Leap and Dark Pact both do magical damage and are thus enhanced on an ethereal target.  Not something you're exactly gonna see on him a whole lot, but hey.  Worth noting.

Which leads me to another thing worth noting, that I was inspired to test out by that video...  Namely, that Nyx is even more broken than previously expected.

Blade Mail does not reflect reflected damage...  Which is to say, if Nyx attacks someone with Blade Mail, his shell doesn't proc on the damage he gets reflected back at him.  No returned damage, no stun.

HOWEVER...  Other retaliatory skills, such as the passives of Axe, Razor and Centaur, DO proc the shell.  Meaning they deal the damage to themselves, and also stun themselves...  Even though Nyx was the one who started it.

So, put up a shell and mana burn Razor...  Razor gets burned, damaged, gets his shock return damage back at him, and then stunned for the duration of shell's stun.  Centaur is even easier, just pop shell and poke him once. 

Note that Nyx's shell neither blocks nor returns the damage done by Axe's culling.  Blade Mail, interestingly enough, DOES return the damage...  But only actual damage done, namely whatever you had left of life before culling blade procced.

[Thexor]

The various damage types make a bit more sense if you've played WC3... but yeah, they can be ridiculous. Basically, depending on the type:

* Damage can be reduced by armour (physical), magic resistance (magical, universal), both armour and MR (composite), or neither (pure). Anything reduced by physical armour is increased by negative armour, and anything reduced by MR is increased by magic amplification.

* Damage can be blocked by magic immunity (magical, pure) or go right through magic immunity (physical, universal, composite).

And finally, there's HP removal, which doesn't count as damage (doesn't break salves, add to Orchid amp, etc.), and goes through complete invulnerability as well as MR, magic immunity, armour, etc.


This isn't including attack types, which are modifiers applied to basic attacks. Thankfully, all hero attacks count as the Hero type, which deals 100% damage against all non-structures, so most players don't need to worry about it.


Oh, and in case you didn't think damage types mattered: Heroes have a base 25% magic resistance. Magic spells thus deal less damage to heroes than the ability icon claims - a 300 damage Crypt Swarm will actually remove 225 HP from a hero. Pure attacks ignore this resistance, effectively dealing more damage than you'd expect, so a 300 pure damage Brain Sap actually deals the 300 damage it claims to.

[Kagus]

Wait, Brain Sap is Pure?  Funny, I honestly didn't know that...   I knew that the Pure damage was why Timbersaw and to a lesser extent Omniknight can stay so bursty.  Composite damage is one that's confused me though.

[umiman]

Composite damage is physical damage that is also reduced by magic resistance. This means it can go through magic immunity but the damage will be reduced by both magic and physical resistance. Damage block also works on it (like Vanguard & Kraken Shell).

This does not mean all composite damage spells work on structures and catapults. That's a completely different matter.

[Thexor]

Yep, structure damage is handled completely independent of damage type. Spells that damage buildings include Nether Blast (magical), Diabolic Edict (composite), and Exorcism (physical), so the damage type has no bearing on whether or not an ability can affect buildings.

Also, thanks umiman, I forgot to mention damage block. Damage block affects all damage types that are modified by armour (physical, composite).


Also also, there's a bunch of exceptions to the above rules. Cleave damage, for instance, is physical but ignores armour/damage block. Invoker's EMP deals HP Removal, but unlike other HP removal doesn't go through invulnerability. Diabolic Edict deals composite damage, but bypasses damage block (or else Poor Man's Shield would hard counter it!), while Quill Spray deals physical damage that also ignores damage block.

So... yeah. DotA mechanics have a pretty damn steep learning curve. 

[Kagus]

Sniper's Shrapnel also appears to damage towers, which is an interesting discovery in and of itself.  Not much damage, mind, but some.

[Simmura McCrea]

Sniper's Shrapnel also appears to damage towers, which is an interesting discovery in and of itself.  Not much damage, mind, but some.

Yeah, I saw a video where a team gave away Sniper in a WTF mode Atod tournament. Cue 4 minutes of "WOOSHRAPWOOSHRAPWOOSHRAP" and gg.

[umiman]

PotM Bottom is a popular underdog team that just appeared recently and is notable for having trounced some other big players in recent tournaments like the Defense. If they were around earlier, they'd be strong contenders to win the International.

That's a bit strong, they have a pretty good run going but it is in a period where most other top teams are focused on training for The International. They are not the first team to come out of nowhere and win everything : teams like AL, Dignitas, Fire (now CoL) and Copenhagen Wolves had similar seemingly unstoppable streak  but all eventually had a rough time after that (usually after meeting Na'Vi, but PB already did that :p). They certainly have potential but they still have everything to prove.

Anyone remember this?

PotM Bottom has been acquired by Dignitas since then and while I think they're horrible compared to teams like No Tidehunter aka Alliance and Fnatic and even Na'vi... I still think they'll get invited into the International. That other Dignitas Alg was referring to... I have no idea what happened to them.

Here's the current attendees so far: http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/international/announcement/

I would say the strongest contenders for winners at this International are Na'vi, nth, and IG. Fnatic have a good chance too but it's kinda hard to say with them. Team Liquid, LGD, and Zenith are good as well but I don't think they're grand winner caliber. But who knows! No teams will show off their secret strats until this big event so everything we know may be a lie!

Furthermore, the next major Dota patch will come out before TI3 so big changes may be happening!

[Thexor]

I'd like to point out that, so far, Na'vi haven't gotten an invite... which is a little shocking, given their showing in the previous two Internationals. That said, they've had a really rough time recently, and their roster has changed since their previous successes. It's just not the same without LoH.

Also, as one of their fans, I'm expecting Fnatic to do their usual - get trounced early on, narrowly stage a come-back as the courageous underdogs, then lose in heartbreaking fashion in the end. 

[Alg]

Actually Na'Vi just won a pretty big lan (EMS One) and has won more tournament money in 2013 than any other EU/NA team. It's just that people expect more of them than of any other team, because they're still Na'Vi, even with a recent roster change. Also Kuroky is a beast but this I have always known.

About potential winners, I'll just say that the sleeping giants LGD.cn and DK are waking up, and that when they hit their full power, it will hurt. Badly. And of course iG is pretty much THE team to beat right now.  Most of my hopes are on Na'Vi and LGD.int, who I hope can bounce back from their recent slump.

[mainiac]

I just had the most enjoyable mid-game pause ever.

So their ursa d/c and we pause because it's late game.  There is an update though so he takes a long time but everyone is patient so we just wait there and chat with each other for like 10 minutes.  Finally ursa comes back and the game resumes.  Four seconds late the other team launches a flawless gank on one of my phantom lancer illusions outside their base.  They'd went on to say that they spent the whole 10 minutes staring at that illusion and discussing exactly what to do.

[umiman]

Haha... that's pretty amusing!

Identify of Icefrog is revealed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2wNx1lEIg