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Author Topic: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)  (Read 4998 times)

Mickey Blue

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I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« on: August 04, 2011, 10:01:41 am »

I have in the past, many times, insisted that playing DF without dwarf therapist (an amazing app) is impossible, or nearly so.  Recently I decided to start playing without it and honestly I think I like it better.  I feel less OCD when I'm not using DT, I don't feel as compelled to have special amounts of pre-set dwarf professions.  Its also not terribly difficult to assign dwarves to take care of things that are needed.

Now its worth noting that without question its more efficient to use DT, its also more useful if you want to make sure that dwarves get the maximum amount of skill as fast as possible.  I'm also not knocking the app or those who use it, I have for years and think its amazing and has brought more people to Dwarf Fortress then anything else save for possibly some of the tilesets. 

Just wanted to admit my error with regards to playing dwarf fortress without DT.
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orrey

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 10:07:57 am »

I used it when I was first starting out, but I don't touch it these days.  Instead, I just prefer to keep a lower population cap; which is infinitely more manageable through the normal interface than 20 new faces showing up every other season.

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lanceleoghauni

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 10:25:29 am »

I used it for a time, but it was mostly to find that ONE dwarf with the bloody skill I need pre-trained that I'd deactivated once he immigrated.
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hambeargur

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 11:01:29 am »

Yeah those are still a bitch to find without dt. I usually just use the manager once my fort gets large and if I see work is not being done I investigate.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 11:45:54 am »

I find DT a very useful micro-managing tool most helpful when working on a project, or for mass-designating tasks (be it per-gender, migrant wave, or job class). Great for if you have numerous peasants, getting them off their lazy asses and get them to speed up certain (not as important) productions (smoothing walls, dumping items, cleaning battlefields, constructing walls/floors/doors/furniture/traps (and cleaning them)/etc. while sparing the crafters and metal workers and experts from the distraction away from the valuable work, and preventing endangerment for the higher-valued workers. Artificers are exceptions and are then promoted (provided legendary upgrade/fey mood)). This is absolutely helpful when you have 25+ or 50+ dwarves living in your fort.

I use DT as it was intended, as a tool, not an interface. I primarily use it to speed up an otherwise tedious task (like stated, mass-designation of tasks and resetting them when done), or if I need specific skilled dwarves most fit to optimize quality > speed. Best example, mass-designating engravers to smooth the walls, and then assigning the masters to do the engraving when the smoothing work is done, unless I mass fortify as well (IE- urgent barracks/defense post crafting; let's say in a cave system or a hellish surface battle commencing). In any other case, I use the shop manager system to assign the workshops to higher-skilled dwarves for minimum, and setup training posts elsewhere (max skill is rather low, but above dabbling, masters (minimum) and above are the prior). We could use a workshop manager add-on if possible, provided it's possible to track them (at least a simple interface setting min/max skill levels assignments).

And lastly, DT also helps as an alert system for in case I get any red-alert dwarves amongst the greens and yellows (Essentially getting forewarning of a potentially psychotic dwarf that can undo tons of work; it's how I managed to recover my airship project after the first few attempts at reclaiming it). So what if I'm avoiding ‼FUN‼; if it means keeping a fort going until I reach a point I'm proud of. I'll still keep a backup of it to see if I can recover it when I'm bored of success, or take on the situations from different angles (or watch the ‼FUN‼ unfold). Sometimes, I just had to wall my dwarves in until they slit their wrists or burned themselves alive, or drowned, dried up, or had their stomachs eat them alive.

I wish I had a more merciful way of putting them down (if there's no hope), but what can I do about that? Plus, they usually find the most efficient way of going out anyhow. Even so, if they're near-psychotic (recoverable rage, random (un)common tantrums), I wait for them to starve/dry up so they're unconscious when I either kill them or injure them so they're hospitalized, but not dead. If I'm lucky, they'll calm down in la-la land, and eventually wake up feeling foolish after being given water and food as they recover. My fort is any luckier, he'll either be imprisoned, or calm enough/ecstatic (dining rooms or epic hospitals, of course) before I assign a sheriff. In any case, I make snazzy freaking jail cells with limited cell numbers (like New Wavehandle; with rooms that nice, they'll be pleasant in no time; if fact, you'd be a fool to not be a criminal, those rooms are fit for royalty). If furthermore lucky, we got ourselves some berserker units for the military.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 01:51:34 pm by Itnetlolor »
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VerdantSF

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 12:01:14 pm »

I use DT primarily to split my dwarves into named and not-named.  All my named dwarves have important functions and are often exempt from hauling duty, while the non-named ones are often drafted into a mason corps or bone carving brigade.  I don't use any quantum stockpiles for stone management, so there are usually 6+ dwarves on rock block duty at all times.

Neyvn

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 12:25:46 pm »

I use it mainly for when a new migrant wave arrives. That way I know what each of those dwarves arrive with with out having to pause, check, unpause, pause check, for each one that comes onto the screen. I also use it to mass remove Hauling, work out which dwarves I don't have in the squads yet and just some things of getting the right dwarf out of 5 which have the same first name. (the last one annoys me like hell sometimes)
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Kaleb702 Games

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 12:47:49 pm »

I use it all the time. I can handle using the in-game one, but it's more convenient, and omniscient.
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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2011, 12:49:04 pm »

I'm not a huge fan of modding for DF but I find DT to be extremely useful for very particular things.

I use it almost exclusively to check that labors I don't want enabled are indeed disabled on all dwarves.  I also use it to check that only the most skilled dwarves in a certain profession have permission to do it.  It's essentially a VERY useful data gathering tool as it essentially just a database of your dwarves and their skill levels.
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Lectorog

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2011, 12:59:25 pm »

DT is great. I use it to check out new migrant waves and to see what I should do when I need a new labor assigned - who's the most useless dwarf.

That said, I hate migrant waves and severely limit my population. I get to know each of my dwarves personally, on a skill level, or ignore their usefulness and plop them on stoneworking. I spend most of my time playing without Dwarf Therapist. It's almost a necessity when you get into high populations, but the in-game interface works great for manageable populations.
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magistrate101

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 02:16:47 pm »

I've never actually used DT, I never found it impossible to manage... Just open the 'U'nits screen, find the dorf you want to assign, hit Zoom-'c'reature, and assign the skill... Not very hard....

dagger

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 02:39:47 pm »

It's not very hard but I still prefer to use DT. Works well with my multi monitor setup.
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Crustypeanut

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 03:15:34 pm »

Personally, I could not play this game without it.  I'm the kind of person who loves charts like DT - they keep everything so beautifully organized.  I change profession names to keep them organized even in addition to this.  Thats how nuts I am.  I mean yea, I played the game without it at first because I didn't behold it's glory, but once I found it it helped IMMENSELY.

I still love the game without it, but it drives me nuts to play it with more than say, 20 dwarves.
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VerdantSF

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 03:19:00 pm »

I've never actually used DT, I never found it impossible to manage... Just open the 'U'nits screen, find the dorf you want to assign, hit Zoom-'c'reature, and assign the skill... Not very hard....
Sure it's easy, but you have to do it over and over and over.  Too repetitive for me when I need to switch 15+ people to new jobs, like creating walls.  One click in DT, bam, done.  Not saying your way is the wrong way, I just have a different preference.

Crustypeanut

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Re: I owe Toady an apology (Dwarf Therapist Related Thread)
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 03:41:19 pm »

I've never actually used DT, I never found it impossible to manage... Just open the 'U'nits screen, find the dorf you want to assign, hit Zoom-'c'reature, and assign the skill... Not very hard....
Sure it's easy, but you have to do it over and over and over.  Too repetitive for me when I need to switch 15+ people to new jobs, like creating walls.  One click in DT, bam, done.  Not saying your way is the wrong way, I just have a different preference.

I agree full heartedly.
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