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Author Topic: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?  (Read 2193 times)

Kaleb702 Games

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Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:18:08 pm »

Finally got around to clicking on my activation email after lurking for a while.
So, hi!

So, for the discussion here:
Anything that I should watch out for? Anything that I should learn first about Dwarf Fortress / these forums?

I know all about the Death Carp, the Blood Badgers, and how the entire world is pretty much a bunch of cold-hearted murderous elephants. Anything more... subtle to watch out for?
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 07:21:05 pm »

Don't get too greedy, don't dig too deep, and don't take the sword from the stone. Not applicable if you have an absolutely insanely large army.
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Teneb

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 07:22:22 pm »

Elephants and carp aren't that dangerous... not anymore, at least.

Dig deep and greedily, and earn your Fun!


Oh, and DO grab that sword. It's absolutely hilarious. (it was for me, at least)
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Sutremaine

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 07:23:03 pm »

Any topic with (spoiler) or some variant in its title, any mention of candy or clowns, mysterious weapons, anything about slade maybe.

Gamewise, the site finder sometime lists flux that was placed in worldgen but later eaten by subterranean features. That's a persistent annoyance.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Kaleb702 Games

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 07:23:50 pm »

Oh yes, the sword will be a huge pain in the rear.
But I'm stealing it anyway. >:)
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Keltiknight

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 07:26:18 pm »

Oh yes, the sword will be a huge pain in the rear.
But I'm stealing it anyway. >:)
Oh yes, just have a good army, or be ready to make some walls. Or lots of cave-in traps. Though honestly, the reward is worth the risk.
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darthbob88

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 07:28:05 pm »

Gamewise, the site finder sometime lists flux that was placed in worldgen but later eaten by subterranean features. That's a persistent annoyance.
??? You mean like flux layers which have ridiculously large caves, or flux layers which contain the magma sea? Both are technically flux layers, but economically useless.
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Kaleb702 Games

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 07:29:20 pm »

I think I'll just leave out 20 people, and have the other 20 locked away in a Dwarven Disaster Shelter.

Okay, how do you desalinate water?

I have a volcano, with flux stone, very deep soil, shallow and deep metals (plural!), and clay. Only problem is the salt water...
Oh wait, would a stream really be salt-water?
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Aoi

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 07:29:56 pm »

The one foe that every fortress will someday succumb to if they do not fall to more mundane dangers: The temporal devourer. When encountered, Dwarfy time slowly grinds to a halt in the eyes of external observers.

Or, simply put: someday, something's going to happen and your FPS is going to drop through the floor. I had a nicely developing fortress at 60FPS crack open a cavern layer that was effectively an underground river. 35FPS. A year-ish later, I get a forgotten beast moving into that layer. 15FPS, for some reason. Gave up on that fortress after that.
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Kaleb702 Games

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 07:32:05 pm »

Hmm...
What things are there that can increase FPS?
I have it set to 300 fps, and 200 gfps currently. IDK if it really goes that high...

Also, amd I a n00b for using a tileset?
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Sutremaine

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 07:43:56 pm »

What things are there that can increase FPS?
I have it set to 300 fps, and 200 gfps currently. IDK if it really goes that high...
FPS is the rate at which the game runs, GFPS is the rate at which the screen refreshes. You don't need 200 updates a second when playing DF. Lowering it to 25 will mak e things very slightly choppy with fast dwarves, but it makes time within the game go faster. The FPS figure is a cap, used to stop the game going faster than you can react to it. The first year in a small embark can easily go by at ten times the speed of a year in a mature fortress, and in that first year you need to do the most direct management.

There are numerous ways to boost FPS, as seen here. Most of those tips boil down to 'give the game fewer things to track'.
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Also, amd I a n00b for using a tileset?
Nah. It's good to learn the default interface since it makes it much quicker to get started with new versions, but it's not really necessary.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

eataTREE

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 07:44:05 pm »

I'm going to go meta here.

The hidden danger of DF is that it's a self-directed game.

There is no goal. Really. There is absolutely nothing you can do which will make the game say "Congratulations, you win!" There is no victory condition.

Sooner or later you will get to the point where you are skilled enough at DF that you can create a self-sustaining, survivable fortress on almost any embark site. At that point, you must answer the question of "What next?" yourself. There is no leader board, there are no high scores. Either the process of tinkering with a fortress entertains you and you can naturally think of projects and goals that seem inherently worthwhile, or it doesn't -- the game isn't going to offer you anything else.

This to me is a feature, not a drawback. But it's probably the factor that causes more people to turn away from DF in the end than any other.

P.S. The best way to not have low FPS is to have a sweet computer. You want one with the best single-core CPU performance possible -- DF isn't very multi-core friendly and your graphics card is pretty irrelevant.
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Kaleb702 Games

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 08:04:14 pm »

^
I figured that. That's why I'm playing it on this computer. Even MINECRAFT doesn't render on this comp. XD

And yeah, the "what next" feeling will be annoying.
Which is why we have mods of super-difficulty.


Anything that's broken in-game that can be fixed by adding a few tokens to the game? Like [NO_EAT] for Kobolds, the like...
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wrwr

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 08:18:15 pm »

Deal with it!

No matter how hard you try, without actual experience you will fail. Horribly. You will see a "whoops" slowly and unstoppably grow into complete fubar quite a few times, until you got the basics of colony survival and damage control. Not to forget the interface. You will flood your fortress, you will run out of vital resources, you will make every stupid beginners mistake in the book. Guaranteed. And it will kill you most of the time. If you manage to survive until first winter, you can start thinking about enemies and subtle stuff. One concrete advice, keep your cat population low. One cat is enough, a pair is a problem to keep an eye on. But everything at its time. Just start playing.
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Mickey Blue

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Re: Introduction to hidden dangers in Dwarf Fortress, please?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 12:01:27 am »

Indeed as others have said the 'dangers' of Dwarf Fortress come in a few levels (and as they said, death elephants and carp and the like are things of legend now, no longer reality).

First will be basic survival, did you run out of food? Water (how often has that happened to me.. See all your dwarves all of a sudden have those blue arrows..), did you start a flood in your fort? These are generally what brings down new players.  Didn't correctly and quickly set up your food and water supply, another frequent one is relying on rivers and/or lakes only to have them freeze or dry up during parts of the year (though the caverns have made that less of an issue).

The second issues that come up are monsters, after you can survive and get the basics down you'll have to start dealing with monsters. First the occasional random enemy (trolls, blind cave ogres, etc) which can cause problems if you don't have anybody to fight back adequately, then ambushes and finally sieges and forgotten beasts and titans and the like..

The last, as was mentioned, are the 'game' deaths.. FPS is a common one, when the game just gets too slow to really enjoy playing anymore and while there are some tricks to last longer short of a supercomputer there is nothing that will make it go on forever, if you go long enough sooner or later time will grind to a halt.  The other is, as comes up often, bordom.  Once you get to the point that you can generally set up a fort anywhere without issue, you can tackle all but the biggest sieges and monsters then the game loses some of its luster.. Once you get to that point you need to decide what you want to do.  Some options are challenges (such as the 'cavern challenge' lower on the forum, or any self-imposed rules you use to make achieving the goals you can already do easily much harder to impossible), or mega projects if that is your thing.  There are also mods that can breath some interesting life into it (for example I use fortress defense II, radically increases the siege amounts to the point its not uncommon to have three or more sieges come at the same time.  Even if you do get tired of it I've found taking a few months off brings back the fun, I did the cavern challenge today and yesterday and had a blast but before that its been months since I've played. 

So in short the dangers in order of how soon you need to overcome them are basic survival (food, drink, shelter), monsters (creatures, ambushes, sieges, megamonsters), and yourself (bordom, FPS).

Good luck, its an amazing game!

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