Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[counting]

This is part of the reason why I prefer a mirror world at first. When a webpage is feed into MOO world, the POO OOP doing it's thing locally. Which means it's not technically a crawler bot. More like a crawlerish web-browsers which display webpage using PWFCC interface to users. (and just happens all requests come from the MOO server, a proxy server so to speak.)

[DrPoo]

Anyway, who wants to get attacked by an encrypted password wielding an very angry moderator anyway?
We just make it polite, no rule breaking, i just want the crawler directly input errything into the generator.
We could make it crawl in intervals, so like every 2nd hour it crawls 10 subdomains or something..

[FunctionZero]

We could make it crawl in intervals, so like every 2nd hour it crawls 10 subdomains or something..

Best way would be to do it on request, with the more popular sites done automatically. With that, unless you have really a lot of people playing, it shouldn't need a limit.

So, has anybody actually figured out how would the game work? (from the playing perspective, not the webcrawling one.) There were some discussions, but no conclusions, IIRC.

[freeformschooler]

We could make it crawl in intervals, so like every 2nd hour it crawls 10 subdomains or something..

Best way would be to do it on request, with the more popular sites done automatically. With that, unless you have really a lot of people playing, it shouldn't need a limit.

So, has anybody actually figured out how would the game work? (from the playing perspective, not the webcrawling one.) There were some discussions, but no conclusions, IIRC.

Soulwynd's answers earlier are the only concrete thing we've heard so far, and even that could change. We're just waiting for his input.

[Soulwynd]

Okay, after some sleep and still with an unusable internet (fuck this incompetent ISP), lemme address to this by parts.

1. (web)Pages would only be open once a day at most. The crawler wont constantly crawl the same page non-stop while you play. If the dungeon for the page is already generated and haven't expired (24hours without access & not a homepage) it has no reason to reload. Of course, it wont have the most recent version of the last page of a forum topic, but I think we can all live with that.

(And I think I've said this a few times before, why everyone insists on thinking it will be opening & refreshing pages like crazy?)

Reasons: Bandwidth, both for the game and the website. It would be rude to waste more than the minimum necessary bandwidth from a site just to procedurally generate a dungeon for a game. Plus there's no real need for it.

2. It will crawl pages with an unique user-agent header. So if any web admin gets pissed off at some game crawling their webpage, they can simply add the agent to the block list.

Reasons: We're trying to be nice here.

3. It's not an aggressive robot. It will not attack link after link several times a day. It should be somewhat safe to ignore robots.txt but we probably shouldn't anyway.

Reasons: Respect and most blocked pages seem pointless to crawl for the game anyway.

4. If we're using a MOO, SVN will not work. You cannot feasibly program a MOO database offline. It must be programmed in the game while it's running. SVN can be used for database dumps, however.

Reason: Well, that's how MOOs work. It compiles object verbs (Also called methods in other languages) to machine code on the fly. The language is not a script language, it's compiled. It dumps it in to text form when saving the database and recompiles it when starting the game again. The reason is so you can have offline database maintenance if needed and if you switch from one MOO version to the other, the code wont horribly break everything since it will try to re-compile and will show any errors that popup instead of running machine code right away and crashing things.

5. My internet link is being a horrible bitch right now. ISP called earlier when I wasn't here, said they would call again later today, but they're incompetent bastards, so I doubt it. I've been having >35% packet loss & 600-3000ms ping to their own root server (10.10.0.1 (That's an internal ip range, btw)) for 2 weeks now. They've sent 2 crews over that noticed that I was right when I said the problem wasn't on my end and still haven't done a thing to fix it. So, don't expect this done any time soon, but I have to ready a minimal database for people to be able to log in and poke around. If it's not me doing it, then I'm sure you guys can find someone else or start this somehow. At this moment I'm too pissed with this issue to put any honest work into this.

Reasons: Stupid ISP. >.<


Addendum since people are still at it:

6. Even if it's not me doing this or someone else picks it up, please keep this idea for when the game should crawl a web page. It crawls on the fly and generates a dungeon on the fly when a player tries to enter a link. It will only do an external connection to that link if the page is either not already generated or expired. In fact, if a page expires, it will be deleted from the database, so it will always fall in the case of it not already generated as to when the game will crawl said page.

Things it will not do:

-Will not follow links automatically (It will only load links when a player tries to enter one)
-Will not download images (If we use MXP tags, the client can download images itself)
-Will not download anything other than the page itself (No reason to)
-Will not load a single webpage more than once every 24hours

Things it will do:

-Whenever a new word is found, it will look up on around 2 dictionaries for definition, synonyms, etc only -once- per word ever. This does not expire unless an admin decides to delete a word from the database for some reason. This could be queued and done once every 30 seconds to avoid wasting bandwidth. Preferably the common words should be in the database before the game is in a working state.

[Aklyon]

Which ISP?

[Soulwynd]

I'm not american or european so, suffice to say some local piece of shit.

[DrPoo]

Blargh, get a new one, goverment ISP's tend to work better.
I cant host, other than periodically.. on hamachi, wich is pointless.
We really need someone to host this properly.

Good thing Soulwynd! I think just the fact that its random is enough for a start.
Are you asian or pacific then?

Why cant the world be less retarded?
Anyone willing to host this would be marked as ultimate god, atleast by me.
We could always make an Adfly link to the telnet adress for one to click at to keep the servercosts, doing some kind of clickfarm or something.
I got a name for the webcrawler too, Gentleman Spider.

Now excuse me while i go punch people to death in GTA, like another stupid person.

[Soulwynd]

No government ISP and I wouldn't trust the government to be worth anything. I only have another ISP available in my area and it's even worse with double the price. Not really sure how they keep in business.

Gonna call this stupid ISP again tomorrow... Been exactly 2 weeks of this crap now.

[DrPoo]

Why let this drop dead to the ground when there is a way to fix it?
We all want that random game.

[Soulwynd]

I barely had any sleep today, but I will try to put some work in getting the database ready. Still gotta fix a few things before people can poke around.

[DrPoo]

I barely had any sleep today, but I will try to put some work in getting the database ready. Still gotta fix a few things before people can poke around.

Pretty fucking cool, as you are the developer yourself, what would you name the game itself? I am limited to ingame programming, since it dosent seem that there are any needs for any machine programming at all.

I thought of this, the parrotweb is all but peaceful, there are random creeps and crazy players everywhere, what do we do? Such an adventurous and curious person needs supplies, however as in any other harsh enviroment, everything, is fucking expensive. We could make some premade items to help the dabbling interwebber, but there would be only one store room, wich you can get to by typing a specific verb in a specific room. You should get two kinds of items: Bargain Mk1 items and Mk2 items, Mk1 items are cheap, but easily explode in your face in the least practical situation where your survival depends on them the most. Mk2 things would work all the time, but only meagerly. Things could be stuff like Safety Cocoons, wich trigger in case of an internet storm, so you wont turn into a penis lion moth from hell, being a rainbow feathered toaster is hard already. Tools for adequate crafting(gaffa tape etc.) and landshaping tools(shovels for digging holes and making piles of dirt, to hide from storms, and climb ontop to get an advantage over thoose skeletal socialist nazi zombie communists) pills to satisfy hunger when that dead angryburger arm not quite does the job. all that kind of stuf etc.

[Soulwynd]

Technically, people could log in right now, but only as guests and for chatting, there's really nothing to see. They would also get a bug message at login, since I haven't fixed the ctime() command.

I'm cleaning up this mess right now:

Root Class [75 bytes]
  System Object [5250 bytes]
  player root class [14740 bytes]
    staff root class [2096 bytes]
      Wizard [9388 bytes]
        SoulWynd [2193 bytes]
  server_options [4682 bytes]
  vroom root class [895 bytes]
    VMAP room [6517 bytes]
      OOC room [36633 bytes]
    CHARGEN root [491 bytes]
      Welcome [2259 bytes]
      Character Creation - 1/? [2686 bytes]
      Character Creation - 2/? [4609 bytes]
      Character Creation - 3/? [2375 bytes]
      Character Creation - 4/? [1407 bytes]
  Object Root Class [832 bytes]
    ORC - Cyberware [1252 bytes]
      datajack [398 bytes]
      math spu one 1 [427 bytes]
      math spu two 2 [427 bytes]
      math spu three 3 [429 bytes]
      encephalon one 1 [440 bytes]
      encephalon two 2 [440 bytes]
      essence slot [343 bytes]
  Pack Container [79 bytes]
    Recycler Bin [2835 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Ansi [3980 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Channel system [4783 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Map [15098 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - String manipulations [3690 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - News [4073 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Command utils [2864 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Help database [3351 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Shadowrun [9140 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Character creation and stuff [3589 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - MXP utils [1405 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Versioning [1172 bytes]

I have to delete every shadowrun related class and remove properties from a lot of the class I'm keeping. At least I'm glad I had this old database, the most recent one of this MOO had hundreds of classes. Doesn't seem like a lot, but when you have to remove each property inside objects I'm using by typing "eval delete_property(#5, "property_name")" it is annoying.

After I delete this and add some more commands to help me with some stuff, I will try put up a crawler for fun and let guests poke at it.

Edit: Much better now.

Root Class [75 bytes]
  System Object [5250 bytes]
  player root class [14058 bytes]
    staff root class [1936 bytes]
      Wizard [9914 bytes]
        SoulWynd [731 bytes]
  server_options [4682 bytes]
  vroom root class [895 bytes]
    VMAP room [6517 bytes]
      OOC room [36633 bytes]
    CHARGEN root [491 bytes]
      Welcome [2259 bytes]
  Pack Container [79 bytes]
    Recycler Bin [2835 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Ansi [3980 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Channel system [4783 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Map [15098 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - String manipulations [3690 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - News [4073 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Command utils [2864 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Help database [3351 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Character creation and stuff [3589 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - MXP utils [1405 bytes]
    Utilitary pack - Versioning [1172 bytes]

[counting]

Trimming down to the basic shell? You should make a backup of the initial setting. Just in case.

And good work

[MaximumZero]

Don't mind me, I'm just posting to follow.