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[G-Flex]

I already pre-ordered Diablo 3, and I do not regret it.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the fact that you're talking about "not regretting" that you bought a product that doesn't actually exist/isn't on the market yet says something about your consumption patterns. You haven't played the game yet and it hasn't been released yet. Now is not the time to be talking about whether or not you regret it.

- I never enjoyed having to put stats into my character in a very specific manner to get the most out of the character. It added no range to my character or playing style. It was simply a time waster. Since it gave no variation to making my character, I say good riddance.

That's because, quite frankly, character stats in Diablo 2 were a complete joke. A poor implementation doesn't mean the entire concept is bad.

- The economy in Diablo 2 was driving by those who could run the most bots. The economy was driven by duping. These issues were so bad, that the economy was just flooded with items if you wanted to trade. Most times you were not sure if an item would simply disappear on your next log in. I hated this, it made the game less fun for me. I welcome having to be online all the time for online play if it prevents this.

How does that prevent it at all? Having to be online all the time is pretty much the same as realm play before, which had exactly the problems you're describing.

[mnjiman]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the fact that you're talking about "not regretting" that you bought a product that doesn't actually exist/isn't on the market yet says something about your consumption patterns. You haven't played the game yet and it hasn't been released yet. Now is not the time to be talking about whether or not you regret it.

Well, there is a little more too the story then what I let on.

The pre-order was a gift from my girl friend on our anniversary that i asked for. In terms of this, i do not regret it (I didnt want to say this info off that bat as it may of come off odd, also this is information i wouldn't share normally). This is also the first time I was 'involved' in buying anything that hasnt come out yet. It felt odd when I found this information out.
Also, the reason I said "I do not regret buying it" was just a way I could clarify my position in the start of my thread. Sure, I could of used other avenues to express my position, but I felt saying anything else wouldn't of been synergistic to the title of the thread about "buying it".

That's because, quite frankly, character stats in Diablo 2 were a complete joke. A poor implementation doesn't mean the entire concept is bad.

True. I can't think of any good games that used the stats idea well at the moment, but I am sure its possible. Maybe Blizzard was not able to think of a good way to use stats correctly.

How does that prevent it at all? Having to be online all the time is pretty much the same as realm play before, which had exactly the problems you're describing.

Good point.
I am not sure what technology is involved, but I know in a game like World of Warcraft duping is simply impossible and changing your stats on your character is impossible as well.
I would think that they would apply the same item and character checking as World of Warcraft has in a game like Diablo 3. I think when I made my reply, I was thinking in terms of how a player is always connected and playing in the same realm. IN Diablo 2 though, you were reconnected to a game every time you started a new game.
I do think there should be an offline mode at least for players, there is not any reason I can think of that an offline mode would be a bad idea.

[Lagslayer]

Diablo and Diablo2 were great games, but not without their flaws. I will use Diablo2 as my primary example.

What it had evolved into was ridiculous levels of specialization of your characters. This is something about it that turned me off. That you are forced to pump up one or 2 very similar abilities, leaving you completely defenseless against half of the monsters or more. That you had to rely on other people for pretty much everything. Solo play was all but impossible. It could also get quite boring at times. The rune system in Diablo3, to me, seems to have a lot of potential, providing a much different balance between generalization and specialization. But then again, Diablo2 started that way as well. I am very interested to see where it will end up this time.

I don't have a problem with the real money auction house, from what I understand of it. It doesn't exclude you from content by not participating in it, being my primary concern regarding micro-transactions. It just filters out certain people you may not want to trade with.

The lack of mod support doesn't particularly bother me. Maybe it's because I don't use shittons of mods for everything. They just need to make sure they have a good interface to make up for it.

Then there was the lag issue from being online. Diablo2 was a fast paced game and even the slightest lag typically meant you died a horrible, infuriating death. That you are online 100% of the time means that the servers better fucking work. If this issue does not end better than it did for Diablo2 multiplayer, then I will consider the game an utter failure.

[Bdthemag]

To me it seems that they're dumbing down Diablo III to cater to the casual crowd, I mean what casual gamer wants to find out the best place to put your stats?

The online auction house is also silly, because then people will be less focused about the actual game and more focused on the monies that can be made from the game. (Ever played team fortress 2?)

I know right?! I mean, they were forced to research how to put points into what... and if one place made a bad suggestion and they followed it, they had to start all over! OMG, And Look! They had to continue researching until they found the right information! HOW reliable! THose dam noobs!

O and dam, a way to actually trade items... I hate that, because I really LOVED having to yell in a chat for an hour in a poor attempt to trade items... and the only way I could trade anything if I had the best items in the game since the economy was always flooded with dupes!

((((INSERT SUPER SARCASM)))))

First of all, there is not one specific way to arrange your talents. People expirement until they find one that works. Secondly im not saying being able to trade items is a bad idea, im saying selling the items for money is. Again, just look at TF2. Alot of people in that game care more about the virtual items then the game itself.

[mnjiman]

To me it seems that they're dumbing down Diablo III to cater to the casual crowd, I mean what casual gamer wants to find out the best place to put your stats?

The online auction house is also silly, because then people will be less focused about the actual game and more focused on the monies that can be made from the game. (Ever played team fortress 2?)

I know right?! I mean, they were forced to research how to put points into what... and if one place made a bad suggestion and they followed it, they had to start all over! OMG, And Look! They had to continue researching until they found the right information! HOW reliable! THose dam noobs!

O and dam, a way to actually trade items... I hate that, because I really LOVED having to yell in a chat for an hour in a poor attempt to trade items... and the only way I could trade anything if I had the best items in the game since the economy was always flooded with dupes!

((((INSERT SUPER SARCASM)))))

First of all, there is not one specific way to arrange your talents. People expirement until they find one that works. Secondly im not saying being able to trade items is a bad idea, im saying selling the items for money is. Again, just look at TF2. Alot of people in that game care more about the virtual items then the game itself.

I was referring to stat points, as your post was also referring to stat points.

Also, Diablo 2 was really all about the items. It wasnt about the game at all. It was about grinding the game into the ground. Even if you were PVPing, to get the items you wanted you either had to a) buy the items with real money b) grinding your face in c) bot for your items d) be given items by those who did bot e) attempt to trade for hours on end

[loose nut]

What it had evolved into was ridiculous levels of specialization of your characters. This is something about it that turned me off. That you are forced to pump up one or 2 very similar abilities, leaving you completely defenseless against half of the monsters or more. That you had to rely on other people for pretty much everything. Solo play was all but impossible. It could also get quite boring at times. The rune system in Diablo3, to me, seems to have a lot of potential, providing a much different balance between generalization and specialization. But then again, Diablo2 started that way as well. I am very interested to see where it will end up this time.

I agree about the specialization – often it's "here is a character who uses one skill always" – but not about the difficulty. Diablo 2 is pretty easy until sometime in Nightmare depending on your character build. That goes triple if you are muling items. Some characters that take a long time to mature might have trouble with the act bosses, though.

[G-Flex]

Then there was the lag issue from being online. Diablo2 was a fast paced game and even the slightest lag typically meant you died a horrible, infuriating death. That you are online 100% of the time means that the servers better fucking work. If this issue does not end better than it did for Diablo2 multiplayer, then I will consider the game an utter failure.

To be fair, we don't know if "always online" means that everything is taking place on the server. The game could still be doing basically everything client-side when in single-player mode... but who the hell knows at this point?

The rune system in Diablo3, to me, seems to have a lot of potential, providing a much different balance between generalization and specialization.

Why? Being able to swap things out doesn't mean you don't have to specialize. It could easily mean that you have to specialize just as much or more, but per-encounter instead of per-area.

You know why they're going with a rune system? So players don't have to make long-term choices about their characters. It's for casual players who don't want to face any consequences of in-character decisions. It's the same reason why Skyrim doesn't have any real character generation process anymore, and also isn't using stats. The trend in development is towards whatever allows players to think the least, plan the least, and suffer the least amount of potential consequences for their actions. Everything has to be super-accessible, all the time. It's all well and good to talk about how that applies to this particular game, but it should be noted that it's an industry-wide phenomenon not limited to this game or developer.

[Skeeblix]

*snip*

You know why they're going with a rune system? So players don't have to make long-term choices about their characters. It's for casual players who don't want to face any consequences of in-character decisions. It's the same reason why Skyrim doesn't have any real character generation process anymore, and also isn't using stats. The trend in development is towards whatever allows players to think the least, plan the least, and suffer the least amount of potential consequences for their actions. Everything has to be super-accessible, all the time. It's all well and good to talk about how that applies to this particular game, but it should be noted that it's an industry-wide phenomenon not limited to this game or developer.

They may as well just hurry up and make the One Game to Rule Them All, and have a game called "I Win", where all you do is push one button, which triggers an AMAZING 3D VISUAL GRAPHIC SCENE POWERED BY THE MOST ADVANCED HARDWARE EVER AND IT LOOKS SO REAL YOU THINK THE GRAPHICS ON LIFE LOOK LIKE SHIT AFTER IT.

Oh, and then big letters that say "YOU WIN, YOUR PENIS WILL NOW GROW TEN INCHES", and it actually does.

Fuck the modern gaming industry.

And yes, imad.

[Levi]

I don't remember ever needing to think in the other diablo games.  I just remember clicking maniacally all the time until my mouse button wore out.

[Skeeblix]

Well, for a game that's mostly hack-n-slash, is this really a surprise? The key brainpower point was learning how skills synergized and how you could best construct the kind of character to fill the role you wanted to while maintaining some degree of efficiency. Yeah, it wasn't easy to do without being real familiar with the game, or doing extensive research, but half the fun I had in that game was realizing all too late that I had beefed up in my plan somewhere and was now getting buttraped by some evil minion from hell. Was it brutal to have to grind through the same parts of the game as a learning process? I won't lie and say no, but even for as grindy as it could be, it never hit a point where it stopped being fun and became work, like WoW did.

[Mephansteras]

I don't remember ever needing to think in the other diablo games.  I just remember clicking maniacally all the time until my mouse button wore out.

The first Diablo had a fair amount of strategy. Kiting enemies, using doors as chokepoints, and the like. And some frantic clicking, of course. But death was much easier to come by from random enemies and using the right strategies to keep yourself alive was actually more important than what gear you had.

[irmo]

Also, Diablo 2 was really all about the items. It wasnt about the game at all. It was about grinding the game into the ground. Even if you were PVPing, to get the items you wanted you either had to a) buy the items with real money b) grinding your face in c) bot for your items d) be given items by those who did bot e) attempt to trade for hours on end

See, that wasn't my experience at all. My experience was playing it on a LAN with a couple friends, and starting characters and going on a mad rush through the game. We didn't stop and grind stuff; we took the items that dropped and made them work. And that was fun. Whereas everything I've heard about playing on Battle.net is what you're describing: an economy that's completely fucked up by cheaters and bots, and everyone furiously grinding in search of one of the ten or so very specific combinations of gear that won't get them laughed at.

Which is why I'm disappointed that Diablo 3 is eliminating the LAN option and making everyone swim in the shark tank.

[Levi]

See, that wasn't my experience at all. My experience was playing it on a LAN with a couple friends, and starting characters and going on a mad rush through the game. We didn't stop and grind stuff; we took the items that dropped and made them work. And that was fun. Whereas everything I've heard about playing on Battle.net is what you're describing: an economy that's completely fucked up by cheaters and bots, and everyone furiously grinding in search of one of the ten or so very specific combinations of gear that won't get them laughed at.

Which is why I'm disappointed that Diablo 3 is eliminating the LAN option and making everyone swim in the shark tank.

You can still do that, it just requires an internet connection now.

[Virex]

Why? Being able to swap things out doesn't mean you don't have to specialize. It could easily mean that you have to specialize just as much or more, but per-encounter instead of per-area.

You know why they're going with a rune system? So players don't have to make long-term choices about their characters. It's for casual players who don't want to face any consequences of in-character decisions. It's the same reason why Skyrim doesn't have any real character generation process anymore, and also isn't using stats. The trend in development is towards whatever allows players to think the least, plan the least, and suffer the least amount of potential consequences for their actions. Everything has to be super-accessible, all the time. It's all well and good to talk about how that applies to this particular game, but it should be noted that it's an industry-wide phenomenon not limited to this game or developer.

Yes, because being able to respec all the time totaly destroyed Guild Wars...

[G-Flex]

Why? Being able to swap things out doesn't mean you don't have to specialize. It could easily mean that you have to specialize just as much or more, but per-encounter instead of per-area.

You know why they're going with a rune system? So players don't have to make long-term choices about their characters. It's for casual players who don't want to face any consequences of in-character decisions. It's the same reason why Skyrim doesn't have any real character generation process anymore, and also isn't using stats. The trend in development is towards whatever allows players to think the least, plan the least, and suffer the least amount of potential consequences for their actions. Everything has to be super-accessible, all the time. It's all well and good to talk about how that applies to this particular game, but it should be noted that it's an industry-wide phenomenon not limited to this game or developer.

Yes, because being able to respec all the time totaly destroyed Guild Wars...

If you think that quote was just about how "being able to respec all the time" would "destroy" the game, then I'm not sure you read what I actually wrote.

I'm saying that, due to modern game development trends, the loss of stats and permanent/semi-permanent character planning is not unusual, and explanations for it revolving around this series in particular aren't even necessary. That's just where the industry is going.