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[Rex_Nex]

"Diablo III and Why You Shouldn't Buy It" is a forum thread.  It is engraved with images of dwarves flinging shit.  It menaces with spikes of tin foil hats.

Ahahaha, first time I have chuckled all day. Congrats to you, sir!

[Wravburn]

They can mince words as much as they like, in the end this whole thing boils down to the fact that Diablo 3 is a poorly disguised transaction driven MMORPG, and I'm not interested in the slightest. Whether it makes a difference or not with Blizzard is ultimatedly irrelevant for me, as there are other games that can take the niche they are leaving.

If I am gonna play it, I will play it solo. I will play it with family and friends over the internet. I will play it with my neighbour over 'LAN'. Exactly the same as I played D2. Exactly the same as I played Starcraft 1&2. I reckon I won't notice anything of that 'transaction driven MMORPG'. I guess it's what you make of it yourself.

[ZebioLizard2]

Starcraft 2 didn't have LAN, and neither will D3.

[G-Flex]

If I am gonna play it, I will play it solo. I will play it with family and friends over the internet. I will play it with my neighbour over 'LAN'. Exactly the same as I played D2. Exactly the same as I played Starcraft 1&2. I reckon I won't notice anything of that 'transaction driven MMORPG'. I guess it's what you make of it yourself.

Sure you will. If it's built like a transaction-driven MMO, then game balance, the item metagame, and other things will reflect that fact, even if you play alone.

[Darkmere]

If I am gonna play it, I will play it solo. I will play it with family and friends over the internet. I will play it with my neighbour over 'LAN'. Exactly the same as I played D2. Exactly the same as I played Starcraft 1&2. I reckon I won't notice anything of that 'transaction driven MMORPG'. I guess it's what you make of it yourself.

Sure you will. If it's built like a transaction-driven MMO, then game balance, the item metagame, and other things will reflect that fact, even if you play alone.

Sorry, what? Even in WoW, the sold items have never conferred a gameplay bonus of any kind (that I know of, please show me if I'm wrong). I have no idea where the leap from players selling player-farmed items to other players with Blizzard taking a cut (the only difference between this and D2 is that Blizzard is taking a cut for the game they made) to driving an entire game model based on weighted random number seeds.

I suppose if, 6 months after release someone had compiled data that consistently, positively linked the drop/craft frequency of the highest selling mod combinations to the drop/crafting rolls of the top % of players who consistently sell things on the RMT AH, and the drop/craft rates for those mods on everyone else is statistically significantly lower, AND that that trend follows whatever mod combination is popular for the most common builds for players who consistently buy gear from the RMT AH, then I'll believe you.

[G-Flex]

Sorry, what? Even in WoW, the sold items have never conferred a gameplay bonus of any kind (that I know of, please show me if I'm wrong). I have no idea where the leap from players selling player-farmed items to other players with Blizzard taking a cut (the only difference between this and D2 is that Blizzard is taking a cut for the game they made) to driving an entire game model based on weighted random number seeds.

I think you're drastically misunderstanding what I'm trying to say here. What I mean to say is that the game having an auction house (and the fact that auctioning/selling items is such a requested feature) implies certain things about the game design. That's all. If the game is built with things like auction houses and item-selling in mind, then the game design will reflect that fact; it'll likely be just as, or likely even more, item-grindy than Diablo II was.

[nenjin]

Sorry, what? Even in WoW, the sold items have never conferred a gameplay bonus of any kind (that I know of, please show me if I'm wrong). I have no idea where the leap from players selling player-farmed items to other players with Blizzard taking a cut (the only difference between this and D2 is that Blizzard is taking a cut for the game they made) to driving an entire game model based on weighted random number seeds.

Without control over the item sales market in WoW, Blizzard had no reason to fool with item drops to affect the market. They wouldn't see a dime of the transactions. Direct comparisons between WoW D3 are mostly useless; it's a different playing field between the two games.

With a legitimate trading system they control and they profit directly from, they now have the reasons to manipulate many more aspects of the game. Plenty of people are telling you it's not a leap at all. You may not agree with it, but labeling it as just patently absurd to dismiss it is, how shall we say, less than honest?

I mean come on. People couldn't have written a more cooky and bizarre scandal than what happened in EVE. Game developers manipulating their game and their players for profit is not unprecedented, at all.

[Wravburn]

That's why I said 'LAN' instead of LAN. As all the networks I play on are connected to the internet so there is no practical difference for me.

I do wonder what "That's all. If the game is built with things like auction houses and item-selling in mind, then the game design will reflect that fact;" will mean concretely. It can hardly be more item-grindy then Diablo 2. There will be hardly any PvP and I don't feel the need to 'collect-them-all'. If the tinfoilhattery aspect of the money-grubbing ActiBlizz has any concrete aspect it will mean that the game will be so casual that I can win it on insane/hardcore/nightmare difficulties without opening my wallet any extra.

[Lysabild]

They can mince words as much as they like, in the end this whole thing boils down to the fact that Diablo 3 is a poorly disguised transaction driven MMORPG, and I'm not interested in the slightest. Whether it makes a difference or not with Blizzard is ultimatedly irrelevant for me, as there are other games that can take the niche they are leaving.

If I am gonna play it, I will play it solo. I will play it with family and friends over the internet. I will play it with my neighbour over 'LAN'. Exactly the same as I played D2. Exactly the same as I played Starcraft 1&2. I reckon I won't notice anything of that 'transaction driven MMORPG'. I guess it's what you make of it yourself.

?? Did you read the OP and the link?

[Wravburn]

?? Did you read the OP and the link?

Yes.

[G-Flex]

It can hardly be more item-grindy then Diablo 2.

It certainly can't be any less, and it could also simply be done differently. All I'm saying is that even if you don't specifically interact with one game feature, that game feature can have other implications that you do feel. We don't have a damn clue how the item metagame will work in D3, but I wouldn't be surprised if, due to the existence of both auction houses (one for in-game money and one for real money), the game will be balanced with the expectation that people are willing to use them, which would affect the development of other features.

[Wravburn]

Well I indeed do hope that they think about how different features interact. It's part of game design. What we however don't know, if it will mean that the sky will come falling down of us - which is how the OP was worded. Maybe I haven't played enough games with player-based economies linked to real world money to become sceptic about how it works out. Regardless, no one is this thread will know how it will pan out. I don't see any negative direct effects on the game I might play - mainly because there isn't a big competitive element in Diablo III, so pay2win is out of the questin. So in my view, with this information, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[Levi]

Well I indeed do hope that they think about how different features interact. It's part of game design. What we however don't know, if it will mean that the sky will come falling down of us - which is how the OP was worded. Maybe I haven't played enough games with player-based economies linked to real world money to become sceptic about how it works out. Regardless, no one is this thread will know how it will pan out. I don't see any negative direct effects on the game I might play - mainly because there isn't a big competitive element in Diablo III, so pay2win is out of the questin. So in my view, with this information, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

The main way I can think of it affecting the gameplay is making blizzard want to add more possible items to the game in hopes that people sell them on their auction house. 

That doesn't seem so bad, more stuff is usually a good thing. 

[Krelian]

That's why I said 'LAN' instead of LAN. As all the networks I play on are connected to the internet so there is no practical difference for me.

that's the blizzard excuse from the begining when we knew sc2 would not have LAN (whatever the reason they said, its OBVIOUSLY to avoid piracy. Didnt work).

Having two computers side by side, but comunicating by internet, will give you worse ping than LAN. How much, depends on the conection, but most people on the world will have a much worse ping than just doing a LAN, which gives basically 0 to 5 ping (nothing).

In a game as competitive as is SC2, where you usually perform 200+ actions per minute, and where they aim at developing a competitive enough scene like there is in SC1, the no-LAN thing is just killing any chance of it happening. It will never lift off as SC1 did. At 200 APM, something as light as 35+ ping is very noticiable, and can influence on your defeat.

Diablo 3 is not going to be competitive, that's have been said a lot. But it is still super stupid to forbid real LANs, as that is a big part of this kind of game.

I remember doing 6 man LAN parties playing d2, starting with new characters, for hours, until we finish the game. So much fun. Trying that using internet, spliting a home conection betwen 6 people? Maybe in your countly is an option, but almost everywhere it is not.

Specially now, that we are in the age of notebooks, going big LAN parties is easier than ever before. But Blizzard (activision most likely) refuses to give us that pleasure. What a slap in the face of the loyal fans.

[Shadowlord]

Or Blizzard could make it so that certain items never drop for you, e.g. each character only gets loot from a specific loot table (or whatnot) so that they have to trade to get the other items.