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[nenjin]

Where's this RPS beta commentary thingy?

I just don't like the idea that game play is conceived of from the top down with an in-game revenue stream. I don't really want my game subject to market forces and even SP will have the potential to be fooled with, because of the millions and millions of people playing SP trying to make money.

In all of this that's my only true contention. I don't trust Blizzard's motives at this point for NOT fooling with the system at will to try and make more money out of it. How many PhD economists do you think they have on the payroll now to help them figure out how this whole thing will work? They'll be taking monies from all over the world. No one really seems to be bothered by the fact the two (gaming and a global digital trading market) are considered in tandom now, and I'm a more than a little surprised. Gamers made it pretty clear they wanted a line somewhere, hence why almost all DLC can be considered "optional" these days. But because it's Blizzard and D3, many people have had said "nah, there doesn't need to be a line anymore."

If Blizzard had done this with their new IP, I'd just stand by and wait to see how things shook out. It kills me that I feel like I'm compromising with myself because I want to play the newest in a series I've loved since I was kid.

[freeformschooler]

Gamers made it pretty clear they wanted a line somewhere, hence why almost all DLC can be considered "optional" these days. But because it's Blizzard and D3, many people have had said "nah, there doesn't need to be a line anymore."

Gamers as a whole have not made it clear enough that there is a line that, when crossed, they will not become part of. A certain portion of them have made that clear, and a similar portion will keep funneling money into microtransactions and whatever other nonsense is available to them. Really, I don't see anything changing so long as we have Joe Millionaire who spends his days eating cheetos and spending money on pictures and numbers associated with a fake sword. Or a hundred thousand or so of him, or more.

It feels like the F2P MMO market and the non-MMO gaming market are starting to merge a little, but not very quickly, and I find the whole thing very funny.

[Levi]

But you don't HAVE to buy anything in the auction house.  You could play diablo 3 just like you played diablo 2 and it would be pretty much the same, since its essentially a PVE game.  You could worry that people you are playing with will buy things and then be at an advantage when playing co-op with them, but could just ask them ahead of time or play with people you know.

There is even a normalish gold auction house for trading with just your gold.

Frankly I see this as one of the least offensive ways of trying to get my money I've seen yet.

[nenjin]

If Blizzard takes the high road on this one, I'll fully be willing to admit it's not that big of a deal.

But with Kotick at the helm....I can't say with surety that Blizzard wont' do things like: observe the sale price of good quality items and alter drop rates to maximize their take. I can't say that the fundamental reward of the game, the loot, isn't now a giant playing chip that Blizzard/Activision can move around at will, for reasons other than what's fun.

And that's why I'm unhappy about the always-online, because it sends the signal that no one can opt out, period, and any changes they make to the game based on the performance of their digital casino are one everybody gets saddled with, even if we "only use the in-game gold auction house" or "play it like D2."

And seriously. I'm not rich. I don't want to play D3 with friends and have a piece of loot no one can use drop, find the price is pretty hefty and go "Ok, who is the most broke out of all of us?" I remember all the problems and butt hurt that came out of WoW raids overly purely game reasons. If there'd been an easily attainable, verified, sanctioned way to turn loot into cash almost instantly in WoW, raids would have never gotten anything done once a piece of non-soulbound equipment dropped.

Financial hardship or lack of it are the reasons people play games in the first place, to get away from real life and its real lifeiness and go to a place where everyone is equal except for their skills and their brains. Even if it's not a balance issue, or an OP issue, it's kind of a moral/ethical issue to me. I've waited 10 years for this to become a reality, since the golden age of MMOs. And I have to say, now that it's here courtesy of Blizzard, I don't feel comforted.

[Wravburn]

But you don't HAVE to buy anything in the auction house.  You could play diablo 3 just like you played diablo 2 and it would be pretty much the same, since its essentially a PVE game.  You could worry that people you are playing with will buy things and then be at an advantage when playing co-op with them, but could just ask them ahead of time or play with people you know.

It IS the same, as item-selling is already going on in Diablo II. Just google Diablo II item sale and you will find sites where you can order items wherever. The only thing changing is that the market is 'legalized', as in going through official channels instead of <prejudice>shady keylogging</prejudice> sites.

And seriously. I'm not rich. I don't want to play D3 with friends and have a piece of loot no one can use drop, find the price is pretty hefty and go "Ok, who is the most broke out of all of us?" I remember all the problems and butt hurt that came out of WoW raids overly purely game reasons. If there'd been an easily attainable, verified, sanctioned way to turn loot into cash almost instantly in WoW, raids would have never gotten anything done once a piece of non-soulbound equipment dropped.

I got from another article that loot will be personal. The quote was "if you see an item drop, it's yours" IIRC. So no rolling on items, wow-style.

[Levi]

And that's why I'm unhappy about the always-online, because it sends the signal that no one can opt out, period, and any changes they make to the game based on the performance of their digital casino are one everybody gets saddled with, even if we "only use the in-game gold auction house" or "play it like D2."

This I totally empathize with, as I hate what happened to TF2 as it got older.  That was a multiplayer game so I can't complain to hard about being stuck with it.  If a singleplayer game I liked was adversely affected to cater to microtransactions I'd be pretty ticked.

I agree it is a possible risk, but I can't help but think they are going this route because they want to avoid being tempted to make  gameplay changes based on microtransactions.  As far as I can think, this mostly just encourages them to add more levels and more loot at intervals, which isn't such a bad thing. 

[Vherid]

Skill trees... no, there aren't trees, you get your choice of skills based on tiers that unlock when you hit certain levels. It's what Torchlight did and people seem to adore that half-finished wreck, I have no idea why it was good there and bad here? Was being forced by synergies to put 60 points in pre-requisites for frozen orb really that great?

Stats. Stat choice was an illusion, the only stat choice in D2 was enough dex for block, or not. Str: enough for gear Dex: max block, or base Energy: base Vit: everything else. When the issue of bow-using druids and whatnot came up, devs said they don't really want that kinda thing happening anymore. I can see where they're coming from, and would honestly prefer a lot more variation between classes than the dupe-fest runeword spam that everyone had in D2.

Right, Couldn't agree more.

Vherid
I don't really like the idea of removing skill trees

Personally I thought the D2 skill system was terrible.

I thought so too, but skill trees can still be interesting.

And seriously. I'm not rich. I don't want to play D3 with friends and have a piece of loot no one can use drop, find the price is pretty hefty and go "Ok, who is the most broke out of all of us?" I remember all the problems and butt hurt that came out of WoW raids overly purely game reasons. If there'd been an easily attainable, verified, sanctioned way to turn loot into cash almost instantly in WoW, raids would have never gotten anything done once a piece of non-soulbound equipment dropped.

It doesn't work like that, All drops are client side, everyone else will see different drops, and only things drop for you that you can use. So if one weapon drops, one drops for everyone separately on their screens.

[nenjin]

Which, in light of the casino, seems to me like they're micro-managing drops on a per person, per account basis. With the stated reason being "it solves loot issues." (I knew about the drop rules actually. But even then, under a system where people could get paid serious cash for raid items, the motivation totally changes in my book.)

I'm not denying I have a fairly decent amount of paranoia going on. But Kotick has given me plenty of reasons to feel that way, and to be honest, so has Blizzard, even before the merger.

This will all depend ultimately on the success, popularity and volatility of the AH house. And I predict it's going to be all three: successful, popular and volatile. And I just don't trust Blizzard to micro-manage the economy to the nth degree and then just stop 99% of the way to price and market manipulation. Even worse would be something akin to what EVE went through. Given the popularity of Blizzard and Diablo, and the degree of control they now exercise over the game and accounts....I think there's a decent possibility of that happening at some point too.

Compared to how deeply I have to consider issues when deciding to buy other new games, Diablo 3 has taken the cake and the plate too. And I do sort of feel like they're getting the benefit of the doubt, just like Valve does, when most other publishers/devs that pulled this would be criticized a lot more heavily. But everyone and their dog has been waiting for this game for almost a decade now...and Blizzard knows it.

[G-Flex]

If Blizzard takes the high road on this one, I'll fully be willing to admit it's not that big of a deal.

But with Kotick at the helm....I can't say with surety that Blizzard wont' do things like: observe the sale price of good quality items and alter drop rates to maximize their take. I can't say that the fundamental reward of the game, the loot, isn't now a giant playing chip that Blizzard/Activision can move around at will, for reasons other than what's fun.

And that's why I'm unhappy about the always-online, because it sends the signal that no one can opt out, period, and any changes they make to the game based on the performance of their digital casino are one everybody gets saddled with, even if we "only use the in-game gold auction house" or "play it like D2."

Don't pretend that Kotick is actually that much worse than the rest of the commercial gaming world. For example, remember when he said that they might cut all the Starcraft 2 cinematics into a linear video and sell it, and people got pissed off that he'd milk the customers like that? http://www.amazon.com/StarCraft-Widescreen-Movie-Special-Limited/dp/B000FULXIIIt's been done before[/url], and I'm sure they made money off of it.

People like Kotick aren't rare, they're just quieter or subtler about it, and the reason people like him are in charge is because a significant proportion of gamers are the type who feel entitled to have things and are bad with their money, and to whom "boycott" means "bitch on the Internet and then buy it anyway, or at least pirate it and tacitly support the product, then forget about the whole thing in two months' time".

And seriously. I'm not rich. I don't want to play D3 with friends and have a piece of loot no one can use drop, find the price is pretty hefty and go "Ok, who is the most broke out of all of us?" I remember all the problems and butt hurt that came out of WoW raids overly purely game reasons. If there'd been an easily attainable, verified, sanctioned way to turn loot into cash almost instantly in WoW, raids would have never gotten anything done once a piece of non-soulbound equipment dropped.

Have you seen that quote where someone from Blizzard, in relation to D3, said that gold-farming in WoW isn't actually a problem? Yeeaaah.

[Darkmere]

Which, in light of the casino, seems to me like they're micro-managing drops on a per person, per account basis. With the stated reason being "it solves loot issues."

Stop. wait.

You're saying a company who can't respond to GM tickets in their flagship title in anything less than 12 hours for ridiculously simple issues, is going to somehow find enough staff to fine-tune the drop rate for every item, every player, every game?

I'm sorry, but the cash AH for this game will never generate even close to the subscription income from WoW. Nor will manipulating it be the mission of some CIA-trained shadowy interns who are watching you and hitting a "drop" button over the cracked sash entry.

Seriously man.

[GT]

Wow... SC2 was invasive enough, but I bought it anyway because I loved the first one so much.

I guess I won't be buying Diablo III, been waiting over a decade for this game...

[freeformschooler]

I'm sorry, but the cash AH for this game will never generate even close to the subscription income from WoW. Nor will manipulating it be the mission of some CIA-trained shadowy interns who are watching you and hitting a "drop" button over the cracked sash entry.

That was the best imagination scene I've had all day. Thank you for that.

Regarding skill trees, I sort of am endeared to what I've heard of the skill system D3 will be offering... but at the same time, I fell completely in love with Torchlight's skill tree+spell scroll system. Both could end up being good in their respective coming sequels. I hope so.

[nenjin]

You're saying a company who can't respond to GM tickets in their flagship title in anything less than 12 hours for ridiculously simple issues, is going to somehow find enough staff to fine-tune the drop rate for every item, every player, every game?

I'm sorry, but the cash AH for this game will never generate even close to the subscription income from WoW. Nor will manipulating it be the mission of some CIA-trained shadowy interns who are watching you and hitting a "drop" button over the cracked sash entry.

The guys who created a loot formula that's mimic'd by half the RPG market at least? Who have been fine tuning the mathematics behind them in WoW for close to what, 6+ years now? Who have had years of learning time based on the 3rd party markets they've been watching carefully?

It's not about having someone manage each player account. It's about having a loot algorithm that can easily be changed globally based on market outcomes. Has the price of epic items in the last month edged up 25%, to let's say, $100 on average with the right stats? What happens if they tweak the drop formula for epics up, or down, just to see the impact on the market? There's the potential for a level of tampering that isn't about providing a better game, that's driven by outside forces. It's why I've always been leery of RL financials being wedded to game play.

And given the success of WoW, those transactions will add up, when there are 20 to 30 million people as potential buyers and sellers. Blizzard will take IIRC 3 cuts from your sale from posting to receiving your money. 3 cuts, x1 million sales, at even 50 cents profit a sale, per month, equals serious cash, that will probably only continue to grow larger compared to WoW's sub rates as WoW players finally quit playing in lieu of the new Blizzard mini-MMO.

[Krelian]

You're saying a company who can't respond to GM tickets in their flagship title in anything less than 12 hours for ridiculously simple issues, is going to somehow find enough staff to fine-tune the drop rate for every item, every player, every game?

I'm sorry, but the cash AH for this game will never generate even close to the subscription income from WoW. Nor will manipulating it be the mission of some CIA-trained shadowy interns who are watching you and hitting a "drop" button over the cracked sash entry.

Seriously man.

you know, they invented a little thing a while ago called an Algorithm that does that for you, without manpower.

[Soulwynd]

The guys who created a loot formula that's mimic'd by half the RPG market at least?

Huh? The people who made Moria? What do they have to do with any of this? Except maybe being the main inspiration for Diablo.