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[MaximumZero]

Yeah, that's a pretty beasty video card. I know you're probably not going to be able to completely off the wall expensive, but I ran across this, too.

[Tellemurius]

My drivers appear to be updated. So: shitty graphics card is the winner! Well, I got Optifine installed, so tomrorow I'll see if I can get the shaders to work at all. If not, it's just one more reason to look forward to buying a new computer... Just a couple of months, now...

Actually, while I'm thinking of this, how good is the graphics card on this computer? It's the one I'm planning to buy. Will it be good enough to run Minecraft with shaders and mods? If not, I may actually wait another month or so so I can get a better one... http://www.alza.cz/EN/asus-cm6431-cz005s-d616967.htm

http://www.alza.cz/asus-cm6830-cz002s-d616968.htm
Dunno why thats cheaper but its a definitely better card than yours

Some bit more expensive but powerful machines
http://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-gtx760-w8-1-d2122662.htm
I recommendhttp://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-270-w8-1-d2144626.htm

This one i would recommend for smaller http://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-nvidia-little-monster-reloaded-lvl-2-d2139648.htm

[Gentlefish]

So I'm going to be able to afford my graphics card starting tomorrow, but I'm sort up torn.

Is there a big difference between this card or this similar, but cheaper card? is there any reason for someone like me, who doesn't overclock their graphics card, to get the slightly more expensive one, even if for just the extra cooling?

[Tellemurius]

wow a 10 dollar difference? O_o AMD you ain't even trying anymore.
270 has more cores and a higher clock, shit for 10 bucks more i just go for the big one.

[Gentlefish]

wow a 10 dollar difference? O_o AMD you ain't even trying anymore.
270 has more cores and a higher clock, shit for 10 bucks more i just go for the big one.

All right, it's done, this is the one I'm getting. Thanks for the help guys.

[Sappho]

My drivers appear to be updated. So: shitty graphics card is the winner! Well, I got Optifine installed, so tomrorow I'll see if I can get the shaders to work at all. If not, it's just one more reason to look forward to buying a new computer... Just a couple of months, now...

Actually, while I'm thinking of this, how good is the graphics card on this computer? It's the one I'm planning to buy. Will it be good enough to run Minecraft with shaders and mods? If not, I may actually wait another month or so so I can get a better one... http://www.alza.cz/EN/asus-cm6431-cz005s-d616967.htm

http://www.alza.cz/asus-cm6830-cz002s-d616968.htm
Dunno why thats cheaper but its a definitely better card than yours

Some bit more expensive but powerful machines
http://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-gtx760-w8-1-d2122662.htm
I recommendhttp://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-270-w8-1-d2144626.htm

This one i would recommend for smaller http://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-nvidia-little-monster-reloaded-lvl-2-d2139648.htm

The Alza ones are ones made by the store. It would be like buying a "Best Buy" brand computer. I've been avoiding those because of questionable quality, and my local friends agree that they're probably not the best option.

The first one is cheaper because it has an i5 processor. I've only been looking at computers with i7. What's more important, the video card or the processor?

Yeah, that's a pretty beasty video card. I know you're probably not going to be able to completely off the wall expensive, but I ran across this, too.

I'd have to save up for quite a lot longer to get that one. Also, isn't the graphics card less good than the one I had picked? I've never used AMD, but at any rate the video card has less memory than the Nvidia one. What is it about this computer that makes it worth almost twice the price?

If I get the cheaper one I've been looking at, what will be the limiting factor? The RAM? Or the video card? Or something else? Whatever it is, I'm assuming I'll be able to upgrade it later, when it becomes necessary - is that right?

Thanks a lot guys. This is really super helpful.

[Tellemurius]

Unless you are doing serious video editing or CAD you wouldn't need an i7. For me i got an i5 2500k and can still play all the newest games
and host servers.

The GT640 is a constantly refreshed graphics card that's over 5 years old. Its performance is subpar compared with the GTX650 and the 4GB memory is a large gimmick for such a weak card.
The R9 270 is technically also a refresh but only about 2 years old. Its performance is on par with an GTX660 and can hold itself for 1080p gaming for a while.

[Sappho]

Actually, I do a lot of video editing, and I occasionally VJ (live video performances constantly mixed and adjusted to match DJ music), so I think the i7 is actually necessary for me. I suppose I could get by on the i5, but am I correct in thinking it would be easier to upgrade the video card later if I need it, rather than the processor?

[Lord Shonus]

Aye. VIdeo cards are a simple swap in, and the most you'll have to do to upgrade it is to upgrade the power supply (also a simple swap.) Processor upgrades often requure a new motherboard as well.

[Thief^]

isn't the graphics card less good than the one I had picked? I've never used AMD, but at any rate the video card has less memory than the Nvidia one.

Video card memory has precisely zip to do with its performance
You need a minimum amount to run a game, and after you have that any extra will just go unused.

If you want a good reference for performance, look up the model on wikipedia's big lists and look at the Processing Power / GFLOPS (FMA / single precision) (not "GFLOPS/W") column: nVidia AMD

Here are some numbers:
GT 525M: 230.4 GFLOPS
GT 640 4GB: 691.2 GFLOPS (there are many different GT 640 variants listed, but only one is available with 4GB ram)
GTX 650 2GB: 812.54 GFLOPS
GTX 760 2GB: 2257 GFLOPS
AMD R9 270: 2304 GFLOPS

Performance in games pretty much directly scales with the graphics card's processing power (GFLOPS), so that should give you some idea.

[Sappho]

isn't the graphics card less good than the one I had picked? I've never used AMD, but at any rate the video card has less memory than the Nvidia one.

Video card memory has precisely zip to do with its performance
You need a minimum amount to run a game, and after you have that any extra will just go unused.

If you want a good reference for performance, look up the model on wikipedia's big lists and look at the Processing Power / GFLOPS (FMA / single precision) (not "GFLOPS/W") column: nVidia AMD

Here are some numbers:
GT 525M: 230.4 GFLOPS
GT 640 4GB: 691.2 GFLOPS (there are many different GT 640 variants listed, but only one is available with 4GB ram)
GTX 650 2GB: 812.54 GFLOPS
GTX 760 2GB: 2257 GFLOPS
AMD R9 270: 2304 GFLOPS

Performance in games pretty much directly scales with the graphics card's processing power (GFLOPS), so that should give you some idea.

Aha. That makes it much clearer, thank you.

What about this one, as a sort of middle ground option? http://www.alza.cz/asus-g10ac-d1637826.htm
I think I could afford that one by November, December latest... Le sigh... At least time goes by quickly.

[Thief^]

...and there's one of the great tricks computer builders use to save money: The GTX 760 (OEM version) is a less powerful card than the GTX 760 (retail version), but has the same name. That computer has the former, which is 1896 GFLOPS vs 2257 of the retail card. In this case you can tell by the ram, the OEM version is available in 1.5 GB and 3 GB, the retail one in 2 GB and 4 GB (yes this means the 2 GB card is better than the 3 GB one). This is one of the advantages of looking at the wikipedia listing, benchmark tests normally only test retail cards so you'd get an inaccurately high impression.

Thankfully the difference in this case* isn't massive, only 16% less powerful, but I thought I should point it out.

*(unlike the GT 730, where the "128-bit DDR3" version is 268.8 GFLOPS vs 692.7 for the "64-bit DDR3" and "GDDR5" versions, which is less than half as powerful but named the same for no clear reason. They're all retail cards as well, it's not an OEM vs retail difference in that case.)


After all that... Yes that's a very nice PC.

EDIT: Just found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaROVgNrOyw
Might be relevant?

[Sappho]

...and there's one of the great tricks computer builders use to save money: The GTX 760 (OEM version) is a less powerful card than the GTX 760 (retail version), but has the same name. That computer has the former, which is 1896 GFLOPS vs 2257 of the retail card. In this case you can tell by the ram, the OEM version is available in 1.5 GB and 3 GB, the retail one in 2 GB and 4 GB (yes this means the 2 GB card is better than the 3 GB one). This is one of the advantages of looking at the wikipedia listing, benchmark tests normally only test retail cards so you'd get an inaccurately high impression.

Thankfully the difference in this case* isn't massive, only 16% less powerful, but I thought I should point it out.

*(unlike the GT 730, where the "128-bit DDR3" version is 268.8 GFLOPS vs 692.7 for the "64-bit DDR3" and "GDDR5" versions, which is less than half as powerful but named the same for no clear reason. They're all retail cards as well, it's not an OEM vs retail difference in that case.)


After all that... Yes that's a very nice PC.

EDIT: Just found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaROVgNrOyw
Might be relevant?

Well, in that video, the card certainly seems to run just fine, although it's obviously not using any shader packs or anything like that.

In any case, the GTX 760 (any version) seems to be a lot more powerful than the GT640. The real question is, is it enough of a difference that it's worth paying almost 50% more for it (bearing in mind that this will be a difference of at least one, possibly two months of work in order to afford it)? Will the cheaper one run Minecraft with high graphics settings and a shader pack? If it will, I may go with that one for now, and save up for a better card in the future, since that seems to be the only major difference between the two machines. I mean, is that stronger video card alone worth another half a month's salary, all by itself? And do I actually *need* it to do what I want to do?

EDIT: Actually, I found a video for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYGTLF_7EKg
It seems it will run, although it's really just at the limit with a good shader pack. I could use a "lite" shader pack and I imagine it will work fine. This would allow me to get the computer at least a month or two sooner, and during that time I can actually be using it and enjoying it, and later on I can always save up for a new video card if I decide I really need it to be that fancy.

Thoughts?

[Sappho]

Actually, I just noticed something. The computer I've been looking at, with the Nvidia Geforce GT640, costs just over 20,000 kc. The one with the GTX760 costs 9,000 kc more than that, and the one with AMD (and more RAM) costs 15,000 more.

However, that AMD card, on its own, costs less than 5,000 kc: http://www.alza.cz/EN/amd-radeon-r9-270-graphics-card/18854783.htm

In which case, I will not only be able to get my computer sooner if I go with the cheaper one, I'll also be able to get the AMD card in the future -- and in total, it will cost me LESS money than getting either of the more expensive computers.

Am I missing anything here? Or has that information just made my choice very easy?

[Thief^]

And that's why building your own PC is such a good option

At that price, you could even have someone else put in the card for you, and it still work out much cheaper.