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[GrizzlyAdamz]

Hmm, I've never really had a problem. But then I tend to take out heavy-jians/culters with AP weapons instead.
The damage is lower but the ROF is higher, and none of the ARs are AP.
So how does armor work?
Quick google results, (woulda done more but g2g)

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2834781

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Funny story, one time I went to the training room and jumped off the steps, knocking over a post onto an ally. I was immediately flagged as hostile and yes, several clips directly into their heads was just not enough.

Anyway, I never noticed the armor descriptions in the game before, but here are the base stats:

"EYEEquipment_armorText1"
"Head Protection: 16-32\nTorso Protection: 22-46\nStomach Stomach: 18-36\nArm Protection: 10-24\nLeg Protection: 10-24\nArmor Shock: 5%"

"EYEEquipment_armorText2"
"Head Protection: 60-80\nTorso Protection: 74-94\nStomach Stomach: 66-88\nArm Protection: 52-76\nLeg Protection: 52-76\nArmor Shock: 3%"

"EYEEquipment_armorText3"
"Head Protection: 170-200\nTorso Protection: 190-230\nStomach Stomach: 180-230\nArm Protection: 160-200\nLeg Protection: 160-200\nArmor Shock: 1%"

The weapons damage is listed pretty clearly, and we know accuracy increases damage by x% (I am around 13% increase at 68). The dual pistols deal 70-103 damage a pop. With the accuracy bonus, that's an average of 97.745 damage each shot, with a range of 79.1 - 116.39. A critical does 1.5 damage, with a 1% chance of doing more. That makes the critical damage maximum 174.585, and the super critical maximum over that. What is it, another 1.5 times? That would be 261.8775. So 6 shots in 10,000 would deal 177.975 - 261.8775 damage, roughly 6 shots in 100 would do 118.65 - 174.585. It seems safe to assume that the total damage is calculated before armor is factored in.

If damage is calculated directly, like opposed rolls, then a shotgun ( per G weapon) to the chest of someone in heavy armor would do 0 damage all the time, regardless of critical hits or super criticals, assuming criticals do not bypass armor. Sam with the HS submachine gun. Also assuming there is no minimum damage (like 1.)

My pistols against a heavily armored opponent, aiming for the head, would do at best 4.5 damage per critical shot, and for the super critical, 0-291.8775.

It seems unlikely that I could kill a heavily armored opponent with pistols at the rate of a couple damage every three clips.

If I calculate the kinder damage against only the leg armor, that gives me somewhere between 30-160 damage per grenade (damage taken from grenade launcher).

This doesn't take into account any extra damage that might be done by hitting the head or stomach.

Bypassing armor might be equivalent to adding up to 230 or more damage per shot.

It's looking like most enemies have between 100-300 health, while tougher enemies have increased health closer to 1000. (On Chicken, at least.)

And what is shock? Fall damage reduction? Specifically to legs?

[nenjin]

So, uh, is never ending squad of guys constantly reinforcing from every angle about the scope of most side missions? Doing the story missions on normal/normal I was like "eh, not really hard." Revisit New Eden and I haven't even made it through the first intersection before I've already killed 40 guys, and more pile in while I'm trying to a) find KA ammo b) heal c) convert shit to health.

I wasn't necessarily seeing the replayability after a few hours.....but the slaughterhouse that is side missions does seem like it's the perfect place to fuck around and try things, with unending waves of bastards to try it against. As a newb though, that shit is over the top.

[TheBronzePickle]

I've been told that the RM is uniquely suited for headshots since it offers a bit more stability and a lower recoil than the KA.

Personally, I headshot just fine with the KA, though, when it's on single shot, and the higher damage and rate of fire are both extremely useful on the highest difficulties.

[Darkmere]

So, uh, is never ending squad of guys constantly reinforcing from every angle about the scope of most side missions?

I think New Eden is one of the worst for that, but lots of missions have backspawn in them. I remember having better luck with that if I kept moving and fired sniper rounds from positions of cover. It is nice for all the research drops though, assuming you get lucky with those.

[Sinistar]

Yeah, side missions/temple missions/whatever you call the non-story ones have pretty different tempo than your ordinary story ones and yeah, it basically holds true to them all that at the very start a group of mooks from the nearest spawning point will zone directly to you. A bit strange at first, maybe frustrating sometimes, but once you get used to it can be pretty fun.

And if story mode is too easy I'd up the difficulty if I was you, but then again I have no idea how that affects the side missions. As for re-playability - just keep playing.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Aand back.

So, uh, is never ending squad of guys constantly reinforcing from every angle about the scope of most side missions? Doing the story missions on normal/normal I was like "eh, not really hard." Revisit New Eden and I haven't even made it through the first intersection before I've already killed 40 guys, and more pile in while I'm trying to a) find KA ammo b) heal c) convert shit to health.

I wasn't necessarily seeing the replayability after a few hours.....but the slaughterhouse that is side missions does seem like it's the perfect place to fuck around and try things, with unending waves of bastards to try it against. As a newb though, that shit is over the top.

Yeah, New Eden is a pretty action-oriented map, (specially if the RNG has graced the spawners with JIAN SQUADS), not all of them are quite that bad.
I recommend trying out the sulfatum & heavy armor on that map, you might like what you find.


Booted up the game, ran New Eden vs jian/manduco spawns, I think I see what you were talking about bronze pickle. Tickled the lights & they fell down, but mediums & heavies were both bullet sponges. Damage model must have at least some form of 'damage threshold' in their formula.

[nenjin]

How do you finish a mission or leave an area? Only by completing all objectives? I've got "Eliminate the enemy snipers" but I can't seem to find anymore. Have run around the whole level for like an hour. Do you just "Launch Temple HQ" or w/e to end your time in an area that isn't specifically a story mission? Is the "Armory" objective something you can complete, or just to let you know where to reammo?

[TheBronzePickle]

If you're on New Eden, all snipers are in the first section of the map. The first sniper is visible from the first intersection you come come to by going left from the start point, up on the pedestrian bridge over the street. After that, you can move forward, and at the next intersection the three remaining snipers are one down each street, all on elevated positions. Don't quite remember the other maps.

You do have to complete all objectives normally, although you can leave at any time and keep what you've earned. The Armory just shows you where your main ammunition point is and is not an objective you can or need to complete, although a few maps have other armories that are not marked.

Noctis is a really good map for grinding, especially on harder difficulties. Extended ranges mean that the few Federal soldiers you encounter and all the high-level foes like gunships and Deus Exes can't usually kill you with their first shot unless you're really unlucky. It's a good map to pull out the TRK, or if you have them the Hunting Machine or 444.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Mm, if you ever get the 'defend your squad!' objective, just quit & reload the map. It's neigh-impossible without competent co-op.

To modulate what bronze pickle said,
3 snipers are all on one street- one is on a pedestrian crosswalk & can patrol along that, one is just above a door on a far end, and one is high up on a cross-street building-bridge thing.
The fourth sniper is further down the street that runs under the pedestrian crosswalk- he'll be able to see/shoot you if you're on the walkway & above the street. He's above/nearby two sentry guns.
There's one last sniper that doesn't (usually?) count towards the objective, and he's sometimes on top of a large warehouse in the 'back' of the map. It's got a giant roof at a slight incline, and the courtyard/street in front of it is free of enemies but has a long concrete platform running through the center, (the platform is tall & steeply angled, you need super-jump to get on top of it).

[TheBronzePickle]

The 'defend your squad' objective is doable. Painful, but doable. The main problem is that all of the people you're supposed to be protecting are almost universally in light Culter armor, which means that they're pathetically easy to kill by most weapons. However, there are a few of them, and most of the time the enemies that come at you are not particularly hardy. If you take a Sulfatum and park yourself somewhere you can see or easily reach all the places enemies can get in, you can generally mow them down before they can do significant damage.

It takes a good few minutes, probably about 3 to 5 minutes with no timer or other indication of how long you're done, but as long as you manage to keep one person alive through the whole thing and wipe out all the enemies who come in to attack, you'll complete the objective.

Still, it's usually more of a hassle than you want to deal with. The swarms of enemies can be handled by just setting the spawn rate to 'Invasion'.

[nenjin]

This was the revisit to the first level. There were two snipers up in a building, in a corner area of the level map (accessed by going through long drainage pipes or cutting through the parking garage with the Meta-Streumaticforce in it.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Ah.

There were those 2 (or was it three?) on top of the GitS-building, there's another on top of a shipping container near the start of the level, and the last is up the hard-to-see ladder you needed to find to leave the campaign mission, (looking down the long street).

[Darkmere]

(Ghost in the Shell building) - Holy shit! I would never, ever have placed that. Man... I haven't seen that movie in a long, long time. Thanks for pointing that out.

[nenjin]

Thanks GA, that did the trick.

[Rolan7]

(Ghost in the Shell building) - Holy shit! I would never, ever have placed that. Man... I haven't seen that movie in a long, long time. Thanks for pointing that out.

Same! I remember being freaked out by the weird giant robot and wondering what the deal with it was when it didn't activate or anything.