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[Bauglir]

Is nobody else insanely tired of this?

Not to the point where I think it's acceptable to start calling his posts "100% unadulterated bullshit".

[Nadaka]

Maniac: I have not been holding back my critical language, but I try very hard (sometimes not quite hard enough) to make sure I don't target specific people, particularly those in the discussion.

[mainiac]

It's the rules. We can't have any debate if we let it drop to that level, either because Toady won't let us or we can't formulate a coherent, truthful statement between all the jabs. Accept you went too far and move on.

And yet thread after thread after thread I've watched be derailed by the same damn lies from Nikov.  Thus any real discussion or education is put on hold as the usual suspects have to come debunk to same damn lies from the same damn person.  Is nobody else insanely tired of this?

Well, a bit but those are the common republican opinion, or at least the one expressed by rep politicians.
You can't really say that it is not relevant, or blame him for expressing the point of view of a lot of Americans.

It's sad that the right wing as fallen that low, but you really can't blame Nikov for it.
If you want to avoid that, go to the progressive rage thread : there are only progressive there. You could make a progressive politic thread. But this one is open to all.

I know plenty of intelligent conservatives with more intelligent things to say and I suspect that Nikov is not dumb.

[nenjin]

He's not. He chooses to enter these threads as he does, and we can only choose to ignore him or refute what he says with as much of what he avoids (Facts) as we can stomach. And then he can decide if he wants to honestly debate or just smirk. He's been moderated for his behavior before, and that's honestly all that needs to be done. His opinion or delivery of it isn't an excuse for what you say and do.

[Toady One]

Nikov apparently jumped into this thread a few times to neener-neener-neener at people.  He told me he wasn't even going to be down in General Discussion any more after I told him a while ago that he was on his last leg.  Apparently he lacks the self-control to follow through or he decided not to take the situation seriously.  In any case, after 3 official warnings and 3 mutes, and more besides, he's gone.  mainiac has been muted for going a bit too far.

[Lysabild]

Oh well, bye Nikov.

I really hope mainiac has learned something though.

[freeformschooler]

Bye Nikov  while I didn't agree with you most of the time, we had some pretty okay conversations.

[Dsarker]

Now let's get back to the topic of the discussion.


On that point, an Australian politician predicted twelve months ago that the US could default. Barnaby Joyce is his name.

[freeformschooler]

On that point, an Australian politician predicted twelve months ago that the US could default. Barnaby Joyce is his name.

He predicted that the US could default? Man I'm blown away. I had no idea we could do that [/smartarse]

Specifically, did he predict it would happen about this time or did he not make even an estimate?

[Dsarker]

No, he just thought that the debts that the US were taking on would be too large for it and that it would default.


Edit: from what I can gather, he predicted this in 2009/2010, in fact. So more like 18 months ago.

[counting]

The cloud of future debt had been looming a long time, even as early as the expenditure policy begins back in 2003, when the wars began. And rating agencies already warned the downgrade in credit rating of U.S. and European countries before 2020, and they will become junk bonds (prediction made in 2005).

[Vector]

Interesting reading, especially the last paragraphs on the second page.

Read away.

[nenjin]

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”

He may have a point. But it only works once. You can't ransom someone if everyone knows you're not willing to hurt them if you don't get what you want. Then they just tell you to quit wasting time.

The new committee will consist of up and down votes. Once we know who is getting in the committee, we'll know what even has a chance of coming out of it, and therefore what actually has a chance of passing. Not that I really want this drama to continue, but I'd rather this stuff gets done before the elections, because I think both parties should have a voting record on specific debt issues when we go to vote, and this debt ceiling voting didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.

[Kon]

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”

He may have a point. But it only works once. You can't ransom someone if everyone knows you're not willing to hurt them if you don't get what you want. Then they just tell you to quit wasting time. ...

Moody's and Standard & Poor's are warning about credit downgrades because debt has gotten too large as a percentage of GDP and will get much worse if nothing is done. So, when the Tea Party and others insist on reducing spending before raising the debt ceiling, they should be commended, not criticized. If the debt ceiling had been raised without a plan to reduce the debt, the chance of a credit downgrade would have increased. The idea of default was blown way out of proportion. It wasn't a debt ceiling or default crisis. It was, and is, a debt crisis. It was good for the US, not bad for the US, that we went through all of these negotiations to try to reduce the debt before raising the debt ceiling.

The republications are saying they will no longer raise the debt ceiling without negotiating to reduce the debt. This is good, not bad.

[Bauglir]

That's a fair enough position (I haven't read the statements from Moody's, etc. so perhaps the argument that they were considering downgrading it due to the fact that we apparently risked default for no reason other than stupid political bullshit is incorrect), except you have things like Republicans walking out of a deal that gave them all their actual demands, except it extended the debt ceiling enough to likely last through the election. It reeks of putting politics, and hurting Obama in particular, higher than the financial good of the country.