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[Lysabild]

I know I was being unrealistic, I just find that the whole political system of America is flawed from the bottom and up.

I think the average person understands the system doesn't work but they don't understand they can fix it by voting.

People say things like that a lot, and I think it's untrue, we like to sit and say "Everyone but us is stupid." Almost all conversations on politics ends up like that. Perhaps reality is that people aren't stupid, the system is?

[mainiac]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

[Jackrabbit]

Cause people are lazy. Maybe the system should be built to accommodate for that.

[Lysabild]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I wouldn't vote either if I lived in America, here I can vote on the for the Red-green and know these are people who actually cares and have a political creed close to my own, and yet I still disagree with them on major points.

Two parties does not allow people to vote for what they believe in, it's a choice between "They don't care about me" and "They want me to die in their wars" if I can do a major generalization without being murdered for it.

[mainiac]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I wouldn't vote either if I lived in America, here I can vote on the for the Red-green and know these are people who actually cares and have a political creed close to my own, and yet I still disagree with them on major points.

Two parties does not allow people to vote for what they believe in, it's a choice between "They don't care about me" and "They want me to die in their wars" if I can do a major generalization without being murdered for it.

And by not voting you would make the system better how?  Does the system only work better if people who's views you disagree with vote?

[Lysabild]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I wouldn't vote either if I lived in America, here I can vote on the for the Red-green and know these are people who actually cares and have a political creed close to my own, and yet I still disagree with them on major points.

Two parties does not allow people to vote for what they believe in, it's a choice between "They don't care about me" and "They want me to die in their wars" if I can do a major generalization without being murdered for it.

And by not voting you would make the system better how?  Does the system only work better if people who's views you disagree with vote?

You don't seem to understand that only 60% vote, because the other 40% doesn't acknowledge the system as legitimate, if they vote, the politicians get easier away with "We can do as we want to, the people voted us in!".

I follow that logic well, and the greatest american (George Carlin) made the point very clear to me as a Dane.

[Phmcw]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I wouldn't vote either if I lived in America, here I can vote on the for the Red-green and know these are people who actually cares and have a political creed close to my own, and yet I still disagree with them on major points.

Two parties does not allow people to vote for what they believe in, it's a choice between "They don't care about me" and "They want me to die in their wars" if I can do a major generalization without being murdered for it.

In a two party system, you must scream and threaten your representative to make them bend to your will.
They will listen to everyone but their electorate if they can, because your vote is your only value, and therefore you're nothing for them once you have voted. Anyone remotely reasonable will now vote for the democrats. So they can fuck thing up as much as they want. You must MAKE them listen to you.

Alternatively, try to make an anti establishment party, if so many people doesn't care to vote.

I hope the greens win the upcoming election in France. Their leader seems cunning enough.

[mainiac]

Primary challenges, median voter effect.

Right now the dems have no choice but to agree with the reps in order to keep the government going.  That wasn't the case before the last election where a larger and more left wing base turned out.  So your statements are empirically wrong.

The GOP doesn't give two shits about the legitimacy as you put it and nobody else does either.

[Lysabild]

Primary challenges, median voter effect.

Right now the dems have no choice but to agree with the reps in order to keep the government going.  That wasn't the case before the last election where a larger and more left wing base turned out.  So your statements are empirically wrong.

The GOP doesn't give two shits about the legitimacy as you put it and nobody else does either.

*shrugs* Guess I'm wrong then.

[mainiac]

Primary challenges, median voter effect.

Right now the dems have no choice but to agree with the reps in order to keep the government going.  That wasn't the case before the last election where a larger and more left wing base turned out.  So your statements are empirically wrong.

The GOP doesn't give two shits about the legitimacy as you put it and nobody else does either.

*shrugs* Guess I'm wrong then.

Now vote for the rest of your life as penance.

[Lysabild]

Primary challenges, median voter effect.

Right now the dems have no choice but to agree with the reps in order to keep the government going.  That wasn't the case before the last election where a larger and more left wing base turned out.  So your statements are empirically wrong.

The GOP doesn't give two shits about the legitimacy as you put it and nobody else does either.

*shrugs* Guess I'm wrong then.

Now vote for the rest of your life as penance.

I'd still not vote in America, but as said I'm okay with voting where I live. Guess you'll be glad to know the last place on earth I'd choose to live is America.

[mainiac]

[quote author=Lysabild link=topic=89938.msg2490936#msg2490936 date=1312121970
I'd still not vote in America, but as said I'm okay with voting where I live. Guess you'll be glad to know the last place on earth I'd choose to live is America.
[/quote]

It's really not all that bad.  I personally think that in 20 years the US political process is going to be in better shape then the EU or Japanese ones because if we just shift leftwards back to the center our problems are solved and the demographics are pointing that way.  I don't see any path towards Japan fixing it's demographics or EU bringing it's parliament in line with it's currency union.

[Lysabild]

I'd still not vote in America, but as said I'm okay with voting where I live. Guess you'll be glad to know the last place on earth I'd choose to live is America.

It's really not all that bad.  I personally think that in 20 years the US political process is going to be in better shape then the EU or Japanese ones because if we just shift leftwards back to the center our problems are solved and the demographics are pointing that way.  I don't see any path towards Japan fixing it's demographics or EU bringing it's parliament in line with it's currency union.

I can tell you that most of my countries problems stems from the right-wing trying to imitate America.

[RedKing]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I've voted in every election (even off-year elections) since 1994. I canvassed neighborhoods for the 2008 election. Right now, I don't feel like any of that matters worth a shit to what actually happens in the halls of power. I may or may not vote in 2012, depending on how things go between now and then. Some people vote because they don't care, or they're too lazy. Others don't vote because they're burned out from getting their hopes up one too damn many times.

[Phmcw]

People don't vote though.  60% of eligible voters didn't bother to vote last election and peoples satisfaction with congress is at an all time low.  If you aren't satisfied, why not do the most basic thing about it?

I've voted in every election (even off-year elections) since 1994. I canvassed neighborhoods for the 2008 election. Right now, I don't feel like any of that matters worth a shit to what actually happens in the halls of power. I may or may not vote in 2012, depending on how things go between now and then. Some people vote because they don't care, or they're too lazy. Others don't vote because they're burned out from getting their hopes up one too damn many times.

Vote green in protest then. Even if you don't agree with them. Or better, make the Communist party of America and scare the shit out of conservatives.
Ooooooh yes, do it. Half acknolege it's supposed to be an opposition party and let the rest of the left use you as a mean of pressure. "Behave or we'll vote communist".

(Yes, I know it's a bad idea, but I think it's funny. Plus the way communism is saw as the root of all evil in the USA is annoying).