Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Aqizzar]

I love the way the stock market responds to its own activities.  DOW Jones index drops like 660 points (biggest since December 2008) after Treasury bonds are downgraded, as all the money flees stocks for Treasury bonds.  The next fucking day, DOW Jones index climbs 430 points (biggest since May 2010) after the Treasury says they won't change interest rates (which are basically zero, and have been for years).

You know what I think?  I think there is literally too much money in the world.  It doesn't know what to do with itself anymore.

[RedKing]

I love the way the stock market responds to its own activities.  DOW Jones index drops like 660 points (biggest since December 2008) after Treasury bonds are downgraded, as all the money flees stocks for Treasury bonds.  The next fucking day, DOW Jones index climbs 430 points (biggest since May 2010) after the Treasury says they won't change interest rates (which are basically zero, and have been for years).

You know what I think?  I think there is literally too much money in the world.  It doesn't know what to do with itself anymore.

It can give itself to me. I'll take good, good care of it. By which I mean, I'll blow it all on hookers and jet fighters. Maybe even hookers in jet fighters.

...Which honestly isn't that different from Congressional expenditures now.

[Bauglir]

It can give itself to me. I'll take good, good care of it. By which I mean, I'll blow it all on hookers and jet fighters. Maybe even hookers in jet fighters.

You're thinking small. Can we build a Starscream Hookerbot?

No, no we really can't. But we sure as hell can try! And fail. Let me be clear on that. The chance of success here is 0.

[counting]

Money itself doesn't mean anything guys. It's the people who owns it matters. It's just a form of debt. You still need to find people willing and able to produce those services and products. (You thus join the rank of real capitalists, and probably not a good one).

[RedKing]

It can give itself to me. I'll take good, good care of it. By which I mean, I'll blow it all on hookers and jet fighters. Maybe even hookers in jet fighters.

You're thinking small. Can we build a Starscream Hookerbot?

No, no we really can't. But we sure as hell can try! And fail. Let me be clear on that. The chance of success here is 0.

Nonsense. We simply need to leverage the expertise of a society that wields devastating expertise in both robotics and sexual fetishism. That's right, gentlemen...get Tokyo on the phone.

[counting]

You could probably just buy one. Google "real doll japan" and "project aiko".

[mainiac]

"Midwest" and "Plains States" are pretty much synonymous, IMHO. 

I've never heard them that way.  IMHO, midwest refers to the rust belt, stuff no farther west then Minnesota and Iowa.  When people talk about "the decline of the midwest" they are talking about car manufacturing, not farms.  And the midwest states are not sucking on the federal tit.  The great plains definitely stop west of Minnesota and Iowa.

Hmm...must be regional differences in terms. I'd describe what you're referring to as "Midwest" as either "Great Lakes states" or "Ohio Valley states". And at least according to the Census Bureau, it does include the plains states. But anyways...

While I'm not an expert on this issue, I believe that most of the "teat sucking" takes the form of medicare and medicaid bringing a lot more federal funds then then federal payroll taxes in the states pay for.

Medicare should be higher based on age differentials. I could see that argument for places like Florida and Arizona, but neither of those are in the top 10 list. Elderly people don't retire in large flocks to Mississippi or South Dakota.

I'm not saying that absolute costs are high, I'm saying that costs over payroll taxes are high.  The payroll taxes are what pay for the system but the system pays for everyone regardless of whether states are paying their fair share or not.  That's the disability money that your research found, it's all paid through Medicare and Medicaid.

Also... the census bureau definition your using, that's a very catchall term that divides the country into just four zones.  But anyway you slice it, a broad definition of midwest might include the plains but not vice versa.  States like Illinois, Ohio, etc. are not considered in the great plains.  That's why I was so puzzled by calling the midwest welfare queens.  Even if the great plains have a few big offenders, the population and economic significance of the great lakes region greatly outweighs that of the great plains, Illinois alone outnumbers everything in the definition of the great plains that I suggested.  So it's a bit unfair to blame the problems on the midwest, even using the census bureau definition of midwest.

[PyroDesu]

This PDF has some useful charts to break it down. Fig. 5 breaks it down by broad categories, per state. For Alaska and Virginia, the largest category of Federal expenditures is Procurements followed closely by Grants; for states like Alabama, Mississippi and West Virginia, the top category is "Retirement and disability".

Huh, Tennessee rates "A" Across everything....

Not too sure if that's good or bad...

[RedKing]

I'm not saying that absolute costs are high, I'm saying that costs over payroll taxes are high.  The payroll taxes are what pay for the system but the system pays for everyone regardless of whether states are paying their fair share or not.  That's the disability money that your research found, it's all paid through Medicare and Medicaid.

Right, but my point was that that's only true for certain states like Mississippi and West Virginia. Alaska is one of the biggest "offenders" in terms of Federal largesse, but Medicare and Medicaid make up a tiny portion of their Federal spending. It's the Defense Department that's the main source of spending there. And Virginia is something of an outlier because although much of the state is rural and somewhat poor, the vast majority of Federal spending in Virginia is either in NoVa or in the greater Norfolk metro area, because of the military and/or the sheer bulk of the US government itself sprawling into Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, Vienna, etc.

New Mexico gets a big chunk because of the BIA and another big chunk because of the DoE spending on Los Alamos. Kentucky (and Tennessee) get over a billion each in TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) funds each year. There's funding for the Appalachian Regional Commission which goes to a string of states from Maine to Alabama. Neither the ARC nor the TVA are things that I would ever want to see cut, and they're both holdovers from the New Deal. Bottom line, there's no single reason that accounts adequately for all the "recipient" states.

[PyroDesu]

Hell, if TVA gets cut, bad things would happen because they have nuclear plants, coal plants, dams (with hydroelectric generators) and supply jobs, power, and flood control to a good bit of the region. Saying this as someone who uses TVA for everyday living here. TVA is one of the things you can't cut without screwing Kentucky and Tennessee.

Though, I wonder how Volkswagen is changing the financial balance round' here, what with building a massive car plant locally.

[mainiac]

Huh, this is interesting.  Back during the debt ceiling debate, I wondered why the GOP wasn't suffering any pain at the polls for their shenanigans ("billions from the poor but not one penny for taxation" isn't a good slogan no matter how you dress it up).  Well, the first gallup tracking poll for congress since the debt ceiling stuff came out and well...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148964/Democrats-Enjoy-Slight-Edge-2012-Congressional-Ballot.aspx

At the same time, Obama has pulled ahead of a "generic republican" in the polls for the first time.  A "Generic Republican" has interestingly outpolled any real republican for quite a while.  So it looks like there might actually be a backlash for all this crap they are putting the country through.

[Chaoswizkid]

So I just heard some pretty interesting stuff that might give some insight to the ridiculous nature of the stock market fluctuation.

If you look at it, it's jumping up and down by 200 to 500 or so points, which is rather ridiculous. What I don't hear a lot of people talking about is computer controlled stock buying and selling.

When the stock market hits a certain point, they are programmed to start selling, driving down the price of the stock. When they hit a low point, they start buying again, raising the price. While they don't hold onto the stocks for very long, the very small percentage of profit they are making becomes far greater in terms of yearly dealings, running at a continual profit. The people who run such a thing occasionally take money out and don't even have to bother with it other than making sure it's not buying any super high-risk stocks.

[Africa]

Polls I've heard said people are definitely mad at Republicans. Or at least, they're mad at "the government" and they overwhelmingly disagree with the Republicans' stance on the debt ceiling. The question is, are people still going to remember that in fall of next year, or is the Republican PR machine going to outdo the laughable Democratic one and make people think the downgrade and subsequent economic collapse* was Obama's fault?



*Which I'm assuming is going to happen somehow or another

[RedKing]

Meanwhile, Rick Perry is kicking off his campaign tour with a bang by accusing the Chairman of the Federal Reserve of pre-emptive treason.

And making veiled threats of violence:

Standing next to a "Perry President" sign, the governor replied, "If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I don't know what y'all would do to him in Iowa, but we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas."

Lovely. How Presidential. 
No offense to Aqizzar, but just what the fuck is in the water down in Texas that allows y'all to grow douchebags of this magnitude?

[nenjin]

The same thing that produces the giant fucking bugs they get down there.

Rick Perry and Palin are two future Americas I really, really don't want to see come to pass.