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[Phmcw]

Well, I would have sworn that, given the stakes involved, the issue would have been solved days ago. But apparently not, so I re open the tread, so we can discuss the dealing that your o-so-patriotic politician are cooking in Washington, and eventually how the first economy of the world has gone bankrupt, if they decide to really fuck you up.

Even china is growing weary of this crap. And frankly I didn't though I'd even see China giving a talking off to the US. And a deserved one at that.

Discuss.

[Nadaka]

This may be the first time I have ever agreed with the Chinese state. They even used a similar game of chicken analogy.

Edited: calling it a game of chicken is obvious enough that I shouldn't claim it.

I honestly don't know what more to say about the debt issue. It is a terrifying thing to sit and watch as your country descends from its heights. Maybe we can turn out like Britain rather than Rome.

[nenjin]

Here's a CNN article with a bunch of 20-year veterans of government talking about what they should or could do.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/29/elders.debt.crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Arlen Specter even suggests using an obscure clause of the 14th amendment that "the validity of public debt...shall not be questioned" for the president to unilaterally increase the debt ceiling. And you know what? At this point, Obama should be willing to risk his 2nd term to rectify this situation. If he has the power to avert this crisis without the compromise of the Tea Partiers, he should do it. It doesn't mean he needs to ram through everything, but at the very least he can increase the debt ceiling so those feckless asswipes on the hill can debate another 6 months without sending us into default.

Because if he has the power and chooses not to use it, because he doesn't want to be the "bad guy", he very well may not get my vote. Maybe there was never a chance he could get a compromise out of the House, and therefore this isn't his fault. But if that's true, the only solution he has left is unilateral action. And if he fails to use it? In my eyes that means he's putting his political career above the health of the nation. If we default, Obama isn't going to be able to save jack squat in 4 years, he'll spend most of his next 4 fending off attacks that this is his fault and making piecemeal adjustments to bring us back into alignment, while the rest of the country suffers for the next 2 to ? years financially.

I was really unhappy about how GW used executive authority like some people use tissue paper. Obama has shown a lot more restraint in that regard. So he's earned some dictator credits from me, at a time like this. It's the president's job to make sure the constitution and its laws get carried out. If EVER there was a time to take that position, it's now. Quit passing the buck to voters, to Congress and to everyone else. I thought we elected a strong president, prove me right at least once in your presidency, for a reason that actually is about the security and happiness of the voting public.

[Phmcw]

As I said, if the US default, you will know for sue that they are traitor and that they are purely and simply robbing you. Devaluating American economy so it can be bought at low price by their masters later.
And that without an hint of doubt.

[Nadaka]

Obama unfortunately does not have a perfect constitutional mandate. If he does use the 14th amendment to bump the debt ceiling in order to save the country, expect people to try to impeach him over it.

[freeformschooler]

As I said, if the US default, you will know for sue that they are traitor and that they are purely and simply robbing you. Devaluating American economy so it can be bought at low price by their masters later.
And that without an hint of doubt.

That's an interesting take on it. I merely figured it would have been because no one could stop attempting to make middle finger shapes with their words for too long.

[nenjin]

Obama unfortunately does not have a perfect constitutional mandate. If he does use the 14th amendment to bump the debt ceiling in order to save the country, expect people to try to impeach him over it.

As I said, it would be worth it to the American people at this point. GW had plenty of cover on his ass to fend of those threats, and had no explicit constitutional mandate for much of what he did other than executive authority.

Obama has gotten some important cover, perhaps in a shrewdly calculated way, from former President Clinton, who said he would unilaterally invoke the 14th Amendment provision "without hesitation ... and force the courts to stop me."

We need some balls like that at a time like this. How serious is Obama about the danger this poses to our country's health? Serious enough to risk re-election? Serious enough to risk impeachment? We're two days away from default. Even if we pass a compromise in two days, financial markets may decide that it was too little, too late and our government is still largely unstable. Strong presidential action might send the signal that, while our elected officials are stupid as hell, at least there's one responsible person there who is making paying our bills their top priority. That might be enough to restore some confidence in the American economy.

[freeformschooler]

We're two days away from default.

TWO days? I thought it was August 2nd. And it's the 29th now so that's quite nearly four days, right? 30, 31, 1, 2.

[Mattasmack]

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think John Boehner and co. have things pretty well in-hand.  They'll get his bill passed the House, and then all the pressure will be on the Democrat-controlled Senate.  With no time left, they will have to pass his bill because the only other option is passing nothing.  So the Republican party gets its way (or else it's the Democrat party's fault that the debt ceiling isn't raised).  Not saying I agree with that strategy, but that's what I expect to happen.  For the past several years the Republicans have been able to run rings around the Democrats politically, and I expect it's happening here again.

[nenjin]

They'll get his bill passed the House, and then all the pressure will be on the Democrat-controlled Senate.  With no time left, they will have to pass his bill because the only other option is passing nothing.

Boehner has already tried one bill (maybe more?) in the House and it failed. All attention right now is focused on the Tea Party, because the Republicans can't even get discipline in their own ranks on their own bill (which is trying to include some elements of compromise with what Dems want.)

The Senate also has its own bill. The two, if passed, will have to be reconciled, which is a bipartisan process. It's not so simple as Boehner getting support for his bill and passing it and then it's all on the Dems.

TWO days? I thought it was August 2nd. And it's the 29th now so that's quite nearly four days, right?

2.5 days then. When markets open on Monday morning, and we haven't raised the debt ceiling, we've defaulted as far as the rest of the world is concerned. The truth is we've been borrowing billions a day already, to even get us to the August 2nd date which was arbitrarily set by Congress. August 2nd is when we're saying we've defaulted to the rest of the world because we're not going to borrow anymore (and use that borrowed money to meet our obligations.)

I've been alive for at least 2 other debt ceiling drama side shows like this before, and this one has gone to the last possible moment. I think the last big debt-ceiling snafu came within a week or two of default. At this point I don't think its brinkmanship anymore, I think we honestly have a House full of reps who either don't care or aren't scared of financial default. They honestly think it's going to be business as usual on August 3rd. I can only assume their constituencies are either rocks, or have rocks for brains, because anyone with an investment or a small business owner who relies on credit or hell, even large businesses, should all be sending them mail going "what the hell are you doing?!?!" Only the guy who is already living in a shack on land they don't own, or a person with a few million safely tucked away in offshore banks, would not be worried about what's going down.

[Glowcat]

Obama unfortunately does not have a perfect constitutional mandate. If he does use the 14th amendment to bump the debt ceiling in order to save the country, expect people to try to impeach him over it.

As I said, it would be worth it to the American people at this point. GW had plenty of cover on his ass to fend of those threats, and had no explicit constitutional mandate for much of what he did other than executive authority.

If they manage to impeach Obama for saving the economy after what Bush got away with we might avert the crisis but I expect an even bigger rift between political parties. That would just be... why even trust our Democracy at that point?

[kuro_suna]

The republican bill has a constitutional amendment attached to it, its not getting passed.

[nenjin]

They just don't know when to quit, do they? It's like the whole house is on fire and they stop to put a match to the cat.

[Bauglir]

I'd say it's more like the whole house is on fire, the only door is battery operated, and they're using the only batteries to flip channels, complaining loudly about how it took a fire for them to get some time to choose what to watch.

[Vector]

FUCKING HELL

I am... distressed.  Yes.