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[Azure Sepulchre]

Soli: You say that Crown contacted you in the night and asked you to confirm he was town should you ever come back to life, right? How did you respond?

Max, read this.

Now, could you point out where you got that second one came from? I can' find it, and it just looks like you that one out of your ass.

LNCP, read this. It continues on from there for a bit, I believe. It's also a rather pathetic foundation for a two-day tunnel, but I hardly need to tell you that.

Also, I'd like to request an extension. I haven't really had a chance to get stuck into this just yet; something I apologise for. I'll get back to this in an hour or so after I've competed my morning routine. In the meantime, I have a few questions:

Toaster: Have you not considered the possibility of scum that don't NK (a la Cult or something similar)? If you have, how has this factored into your vote on Daruish?

Jim: What makes you so sure Max is scum and not an idiotic townie (because, to be honest, I've been getting Jetsquirrel vibes off of him all throughout reading this game)? In that regard, what makes him a better lynch to you than Crown as of right now? Your reasons for switching aren't really clear to me beyond 'I'm sick of hearing the stupid'. At the same time, considering how strong a proponent you were of a Crown lynch, I find the switch very odd.

Crown: ...why would you claim like that? Why would you ever, ever claim like that? That's not even a rhetorical question; I honestly don't get it. One person applied a bit of pressure, and you exploded in his bloody face. What made you think it was a good idea? At all?

I'm also combing the game for scumtells at the moment. Got a few in Notepad, but I need to keep checking to see if they've been addressed/refuted/etc. Also need to keep looking for more. And do my regular day-time stuff. So yeah. Later.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: What makes you so sure Max is scum and not an idiotic townie (because, to be honest, I've been getting Jetsquirrel vibes off of him all throughout reading this game)? In that regard, what makes him a better lynch to you than Crown as of right now? Your reasons for switching aren't really clear to me beyond 'I'm sick of hearing the stupid'. At the same time, considering how strong a proponent you were of a Crown lynch, I find the switch very odd.

Why can't he be idiotic scum? Where's that option?

I would think that the reasons I switched my vote would be evident because of how Max White is dropping scum tells from every orifice and how I've been repeating the exact same things over and over again to him. But I'll do you the favor of explaining why I switched. I didn't want to bother giving Max White the explanation since it would be completely lost on him.

Look at this quote:

He's only better by the limited criteria you really want me to adopt - that I just want to test my neat shiny theory and ignore everything else like reads on players, answers to questions, reactions, and other results from scumhunting.

According to all that fluff you want me to ignore (which is really more important than some stupid theory) CrownOfFire is a much better choice.

Well what have you got to loose? Also, once again your once awesome idea that explained why Crown must be scum has turned into a stupid theory. Jim doesn't throw out stupid theories does he? Why would he?
If you don't think that Josh is your scum priest and revived Soli as part of an evil plan to make Crown look innocent, who bring it up?

I have nothing to lose from a JoshuaFH lynch. Absolutely nothing. I would be completely unaffected by the lynch.

But how is that an argument for a lynch? I've said repeatedly, repeatedly, motherfucking goddamn repeatedly, that I (and by extension, any good town) would only vote for someone they thought was scum. So how is me not having anything to lose a good reason to switch my vote? It isn't. It's not a reason at all. It's a really scummy fucking argument and Max White keeps pushing it.

He keeps pushing it even though I've told him repeatedly (repeatedly) that it's scummy, and if he's going to brazenly disregard repeated warnings then I can't chalk it up to him being a dipshit and let it slide anymore.

He also continues misrepresenting my position, even though I've told him repeatedly (motherfucking goddamn repeatedly) what it actually is, so if he's going to brazenly disregard that too even despite correction then he can enjoy the long end of a noose.

As for what makes him a better lynch than CrownOfFire? He isn't. But Max White is begging for a lynch and I'll give it to him.

Solifuge, why are you still voting me? Isn't holding your shitty vote with shitty reasons for several days exactly what got you lynched on Day 1? (Hint: It is.) React to new material, fucknuts.

[Toaster]

Azure:

Toaster: Have you not considered the possibility of scum that don't NK (a la Cult or something similar)? If you have, how has this factored into your vote on Daruish?

I have.  If he was not scummy independent of the block, I would be much more in doubt on my vote.  If I thought he was reasonably townie, I might not even vote him.  However, as I said above, he's scummy anyway, so the vote stands.

Why are you answering questions for others?


BD:  Have you head of Toaster's #1 Scumtell?


Josh has vanished again.

[lordnincompoop]

Max:  Why are you so eager to jump to Crown's defense?

While he might be scum, it seems the least likely option. And there is somebody I would much rather lynch today.

Bullshit.

"He isn't that high on my scumlist" is not an answer that mixes well with "Holy shit guys, don't lynch Crownbro! Why are we lynching Crownbro!?".

You don't defend a low-priority suspect like that - especially one that you still think "might be scum".

Same reason I lie to anybody, to get a free drink! Sad to say, I don't think any amount of lying will get me drunk on this thread, as such I am not lying to you.
Also, when did I back off? Near the end of d1? I didn't feel as confident that he was scum, now I do.

Well, tell me this: Why do you think Josh is scum?

[Dariush]

No.  I FoS you because you bring up that possibility and try to play it down even though, from your perspective, that possibility shouldn't exist (you know what you did last night).

From my perspective, I'm town. But nobody is going to believe that without arguments, so I'm elaborating. Same thing here.

Ad hominem attacks on your attacker noted.

Uh. Do you even know what 'ad hominem' means? Lurking isn't a negative personal trait in mafia, it's scummy.

Let's start back in D1 with your active lurking and noncommittal statement.

...Did you even notice my explanation in the next post? I'll assume you didn't, and quote myself:

I didn't pretend it had any content. There are four five people (Jake, Crown, Pandar, Joshua and Solifuge) absent and one asking for replacement. We can't progress anywhere like this, so I thought I could for once stop, collect my thoughts and get up to date on kilakan's case.

You then give a weak reason to tie the votes shortly before deadline.

I didn't know that I was tying the votes.

Max, WHY THE FUCK are you so sure that Josh is scum? You aren't even presenting any arguments anymore, you just say

Unless a theory puts Josh as scum that we are lynching today, it is a worthless theory.

Ergo, anything that helps lynch Josh is helpful.

PPE: crap, ninja'd.

Azure,

Soli: You say that Crown contacted you in the night and asked you to confirm he was town should you ever come back to life, right? How did you respond?

Max, read this.

Why are you answering questions directed to Soli?

[Toaster]

Dariush:

Ad hominem attacks on your attacker noted.

Uh. Do you even know what 'ad hominem' means? Lurking isn't a negative personal trait in mafia, it's scummy.

I do.  Do you?

Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but apparent character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

You're discrediting his argument by calling him a lurker, which does not logically follow.

Let's start back in D1 with your active lurking and noncommittal statement.

...Did you even notice my explanation in the next post? I'll assume you didn't, and quote myself:

That doesn't explain anything, especially since you didn't deny you were active lurking.  The problem was you made a statement that could go either way on kilakan, which could be used to either start or back off from an attack on him.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
CrownOfFire: Azure Sepulchre, Bdthemag, Leafsnail, lordnincompoop
Dariush: Jokerman-EXE, Toaster
Jim Groovester: Solifuge
JoshuaFH: Max White
Max White: CrownOfFire, Dariush, Jim Groovester, JoshuaFH, Vector


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

[Dariush]

You're discrediting his argument by calling him a lurker, which does not logically follow.

I was pointing out his hypocrisy.

The problem was you made a statement that could go either way on kilakan, which could be used to either start or back off from an attack on him.

How can explanation of why he needed to be so thorough and aggressive in his argument with Max 'go either way'? I simply wanted to see his explanation in case he was neither lynched nor replaced.

[Jokerman-EXE]

I'm back. Just a few answers to questions posed at me; I'll be able to look at the game in more detail later.

Jim, I can understand where you're coming from with your argument with Max, but it also appears that you're very eager to pin a "scummy" tag on him. In reading through, (though this may be due to hindsight) it looked to me like Max was fielding a hypothetical. And while nothing you said was untrue (I agree that it's extremely scummy to vote based on "least damaging mislynch"), I don't think that what Max was saying was necessarily that we should lynch Josh because it's the right thing to do, but rather that if we were to follow your theory, lynching Josh would be the best move. Do I think we should follow your theory? No, because it's only one theory and enough of the town's focus has already been dumped into it. I think it's a good possibility to have in mind, and we should continue hunting because if we get caught up on an untrue theory, scum can lock things up that much easier.

Exactly, you and me are on the same page about my theory. I don't want to test my theory for the sake of testing my theory, I'd rather lynch based on good reads gathered from good scumhunting.

But Max White was asking me questions under the assumption that testing my theory for the sake of testing my theory was the entirety of everything I ever wanted to do, mere moments after I came up with it. He continued with the same line of questioning even after I made it abundantly clear that I wasn't interested in doing anything like he was suggesting or discussing anything about it. I called him scummy because it was. I kept calling him scummy afterward to get him to shut the fuck up about it because I really didn't want to listen to him prattle on with his arguments.

I don't understand your question. You agree Max White was being really scummy, but you object when I call him scummy. I don't follow.

Bolded part is wisdom.

I guess where we differ is this: I read through the thread and caught up on the three or four pages I had missed. Then, I went back and began to comb for suspicions. Because of my retroactive knowledge due to the first readthrough, it appeared to me that Max was simply offering a hypothetical situation and asking how you would react given that circumstance.

Of course, since then, Max has proven that this is not the case, and that he's apparently content to hang his vote on Joshua, then simply defend himself until the end of the day. Painfully non-town behavior.

Sorry, getting ready for a light road trip. If I missed anything let me know. See you guys tonight/tomorrow.

[Jim Groovester]

MOD: Please prod JoshuaFH and Solifuge. They've been gone for more than 24 hours, not including the weekend. (Solifuge is at 23 hours, but whatever.)

JoshuaFH, you know, if you're not going to do anything more than resurrect Solifuge, I'd be more than happy to lynch you. Play already.

[Vector]

I need to get of the computer and take a walk, and then I'll be able to work on the readthrough of this game until a scheduled livestream thinger.

Should be soon, though.  Sorry for the long wait.

[Solifuge]

Soli: You say that Crown contacted you in the night and asked you to confirm he was town should you ever come back to life, right? How did you respond?

Crown seemed a bit reluctant to be contacting me. His words regarding confirmation were "I suppose I might be confirmed as Town if you ever come back or something," but to me that was more him looking for something a D1 lynchee could offer. I responded with a joke/bait, saying "Suppose Warlocks can't be scum on Night 1, eh?" and focused instead on explaining my scum picks, and my perspective as a dead man.

Solifuge, why are you still voting me? Isn't holding your shitty vote with shitty reasons for several days exactly what got you lynched on Day 1? (Hint: It is.) React to new material, fucknuts.

Weekends are exceedingly busy for me; I don't have the copious amounts of free time you seem to have, dunkass.

Anyway, subconscious Scum Tells have been all over your behavior; you're really bothered even by just one vote. When you get called out, rather than defending yourself in the open, you squirrel your response away in a Spoiler Tag so it doesn't draw more attention, and your responses include nothing but deflection after deflection, and a litany of "Why aren't you giving X a hard time, Soli?", all the while regurgitating the same 2 phrases you used Day 1 to get Town lynched, despite knowing that it was a shit lynch. The only thing you said that wasn't deflecting or STILL hanging on D1 lurking long after it was no longer relevant was a lie; you were trying to wriggle your way out from having pardoned Pandarsenic, by saying you hadn't hypocritically excused his Lurking behavior as Town while using the same argument to condemn me, which anyone can see is simply not true.

If you think you can bluster and curse hard enough and get off the hook, think again, Scum. Nevertheless, I doubt anyone will read this post, or give the idea serious consideration, because your conviction, level anger, and ability to convince yourself of your own veracity make you peerless at looking Town, especially when not. People are more inclined to look where you are pointing than at the man pointing the finger.

Spoiler: P.S. (click to show/hide)

MOD: Please prod JoshuaFH and Solifuge. They've been gone for more than 24 hours, not including the weekend. (Solifuge is at 23 hours, but whatever.)

Whine harder. It's the freaking weekend, and people tend to be busy on them. Stop trying to use the metagame to discredit people; it's pretty craptastic.

In the meantime, why is everyone getting caught up in the stupidity that is Max White and CrownOfFire, when we had scum-bucket Dariush roleblocked last night, and lo and behold there was no kill. He's been waffley and lurkey all game, and when the game hands you his red-handed butt on a silver platter, you completely look past it. Really now.

[ECrownofFire]

"He isn't that high on my scumlist" is not an answer that mixes well with "Holy shit guys, don't lynch Crownbro! Why are we lynching Crownbro!?".

But I'm the broiest bro there is! You wouldn't lynch a bro, would you, bro?

(This post brought to you by a combination of silliness and "somebody post something useful, dammit")

[Jokerman-EXE]

In the meantime, why is everyone getting caught up in the stupidity that is Max White and CrownOfFire, when we had scum-bucket Dariush roleblocked last night, and lo and behold there was no kill. He's been waffley and lurkey all game, and when the game hands you his red-handed butt on a silver platter, you completely look past it. Really now.

THANK YOU.

[Toaster]

Crown:

(This post brought to you by a combination of silliness and "somebody post something useful, dammit")

Why don't you start?