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[ECrownofFire]

Crown:

While I'm at it, since my role is rather powerful (this, at least, seems to be generally agreed upon), why not just lynch me and have Solifuge revive me? He's already proven to be town, and you'll see that I'm town when I get lynched (and subsequently revived). If it's really that important to you, then I don't really give a fuck if I die for a night, except that I can't use my power for a night. That follows that if I don't get revived, it's because Solifuge turned into a Demon because of Josh, or he got RB'd by someone.

This is self contradictory.  First you say Solifuge is "proven to be town," but then you say that he might have turned into a demon.

Proven to be town unless he's a demon, really.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Long day at work and I have to pack for a trip home in the morning, so I'll keep it concise.

Jim, I can understand where you're coming from with your argument with Max, but it also appears that you're very eager to pin a "scummy" tag on him. In reading through, (though this may be due to hindsight) it looked to me like Max was fielding a hypothetical. And while nothing you said was untrue (I agree that it's extremely scummy to vote based on "least damaging mislynch"), I don't think that what Max was saying was necessarily that we should lynch Josh because it's the right thing to do, but rather that if we were to follow your theory, lynching Josh would be the best move. Do I think we should follow your theory? No, because it's only one theory and enough of the town's focus has already been dumped into it. I think it's a good possibility to have in mind, and we should continue hunting because if we get caught up on an untrue theory, scum can lock things up that much easier.

Unvote Vector. I have a standing policy that when no kill happens and someone is willing to claim roleblocker, then my vote goes to the one who was blocked. Dariush, your reasoning as to why no kill happened has been...oh wait, you still haven't given a logical reason. You've (mistakenly) tried to call Vector a liar for a claim that wasn't made, then you attempted to prove a point by asking Meph a question - a point that I'm still waiting to hear.

Vector, any word on some actual content from you?

CrownOfFire, you're very high on my scumlist, but it would be foolish to recount what everyone else said. You have my suspicion, and quite a bit of it, but Dariush has earned a spot in the noose first.

[Vector]

Actual content is tomorrow morning, as I've said a few times.  My guess was correct and my brain is too fried to do any real critical thinking today.

[Dariush]

Dariush, this is very scummy.  You've claimed not to have left your house.  If you did in fact try to leave your house, then you are lying and scum.  It's almost as if you're worried the flavour might have told Toaster that you attempted to leave your house.

Soooo... You FoS me because there's a possibility that I lied and tried to leave the house?

Anyway, Dariush, you were nearly as quiet as I was Day 1.

I live on the other side of the globe from the majority of the players. In my day there's at most 4-5 posts, so it is much more ergonomic to make a post once or twice per day, where I cram all information. And I didn't lurk for five days straight, unlike a certain somebody, so don't offend me by comparing me to yourself.

You only spoke up after we saw no kill overnight, and you were locked up in home.

I was supposed to speak at night? I don't understand what you're saying.

You falsely lashed out at Vector along with Toaster (for believing that both had claimed to guard you, which was nonsense)

I admitted there was a mistake. I misread the author of a single post. Is that also a scumtell in your lurking eyes?

Dariush, your reasoning as to why no kill happened has been...oh wait, you still haven't given a logical reason. You've (mistakenly) tried to call Vector a liar for a claim that wasn't made, then you attempted to prove a point by asking Meph a question - a point that I'm still waiting to hear.

Hey, that's a clever post. You leave no possibility of me not being scum and not knowing why the fuck there was no nightkill.

And the point I've been trying to prove is 'even if I got the PM, it doesn't mean I tried to leave the house' - a point which is conveniently ignored by Toaster, even though it voids his whole case.

[Max White]

Max:  What makes you think Dariush was the kill target?  For one thing, I know that's not the case- nobody (besides myself) targeted Dariush.  I forgot to mention that earlier.

As far as the explanation goes, I meant you didn't provide the one you did give at first.

You're also forming scumteams with your case on Josh/Jim.  It's still too early to do so- could you convince yourself that one is scum without relying on the other?

Ah, well thank you for bringing that up now. Guess he isn't the nk target then. Still, we have Sorcerers, Wizards and knights, so there are other ways to stop a night kill.
Anybody: If a Sorcerer, Wizard or knight managed to stop a kill, would they be informed of this, and would they be informed of who the killer was?
Further more, if somebody else was saved last night, should they claim?

I was supposed to speak at night? I don't understand what you're saying.

I think he meant that you were silent through d1, then there was no night kill, and you were blocked, and suddenly you feel more talkative. He doesn't mean over the coarse of the night, but rather the entire game.

[Max White]

Wait, sorry, I totally missed Toasters question there. Let me address it.
Well I'm confident that Josh is scum, thus my vote is on him. Jim and Bd? Not as much, but there interactions and other play have together been strong enough for me to say they are scum, otherwise I would just be watching them carefully. Josh, however, I will say is scum even without Jim or Bd.

[Bdthemag]

Won't be able to post much today, just giving a heads up.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Dariush, your reasoning as to why no kill happened has been...oh wait, you still haven't given a logical reason. You've (mistakenly) tried to call Vector a liar for a claim that wasn't made, then you attempted to prove a point by asking Meph a question - a point that I'm still waiting to hear.

Hey, that's a clever post. You leave no possibility of me not being scum and not knowing why the fuck there was no nightkill.

And the point I've been trying to prove is 'even if I got the PM, it doesn't mean I tried to leave the house' - a point which is conveniently ignored by Toaster, even though it voids his whole case.

That possibility is only non-existant if you make it so, Dariush. In my post I'm asking you to refute the claim and prove it wrong, not sit there and whine about how hard it is to do so.

"Look, even if the police took the gun out of my hand, that doesn't mean I'm the one who used it on that gunshot victim." While that's technically true, if highly idiotic, I don't see how your "point" (using the term facetiously) voids anything, certainly not the argument against you. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper.

[Dariush]

Actually, it's you who is ignoring the obvious.

Let's assume I'm not scum. Since I am not scum, I don't know why there was no kill last night and I can't provide reasoning for it's absence.

That's it. I can't explain it in any simpler terms.

[Jokerman-EXE]

I understand that. But here's what it comes down to:

A confirmed roleblocker claims his target.

There was no kill that night.

"Guys, I'm not scum. I don't know why there was no kill last night and I can't provide reasoning for its absence."

Well when you put it that way.

[Dariush]

So this is your reasoning.

And instead of scumhunting, you prefer to hang onto this fact and see me lynched without any other arguments.

Also there's a shitload of ways NK can fail to happen, independent of roleblocking.

Yet you choose to ignore everything and ride the easiest lynch in sight.

Another companion to Max in lynch-happiness?

[lordnincompoop]

I spent all of yesterday and all of today morning making flavourtext. Sorry.

My vote currently goes to Crown. The overblown reactions he's been giving ("holy shit gotta claim") and his advance request to be confirmed are criminal. The fact that he's activelurked the game away doesn't help him.

I know this isn't the most original of votes, so I'll be throwing some pokes and questions around to get some info of my own.

Jim:  Does it really matter what flavor of blocker I'm claiming at this point?

I'm not discounting the possibility that there's some sort of scum-specific roleblocker. I didn't really expect any answer other than the one you gave, but it's still important to make sure about these things.

I don't see why he couldn't just fakeclaim as a town-roleblocker when scum.

Toaster Although im not sure if your really a roleblocker, i'd just like to note there are a few different kinds of roleblockers. There's the normal kind, and then there's the other kind which allow's the blocker to talk to the person being blocked and vise versa.

Crown So your a town aligned warlock? I doubt that, and why do you want Darius to claim? I wasn't even aware we were doing a massclaim.

So you start off with the most useless possible "note" and place a vote on some weak postulation and non-existent BS. Not one for reading, eh, scum?

You're also doing jack shit to progress this vote. Your posited questions have been answered and thoroughly ignored by yourself.

And no, there is no mass-claim. I just saw an opportunity to show myself as town before Solifuge dies again or something. It's better to confirm myself Town earlier in the game.

No, your not confirmng yourself as town, your just giving us a role. Soli has all day to claim. I doubt he is going to be able to go today without posting, or he will get replaced. And I'm sure if he is replaced, then the replacement will be filled in on the details. Your story isn't checking out.

So?

Wait, full stop. You think I attacked you for attacking Crown? That's news to me.

Well who else? You? You think I'm scum because I'm attacking you? Ha! Go hang.
Anyway, that dosn't make sense in context. You claimed I was making attacks to draw attention from either Pandar or Dariush, yet I have been after you since before either of them were suspected by anybody. You either meant I was attacking somebody else to defend a suspect, or meant I was attacking you for illogical reasons.

And how the fuck does that constitute a chainsaw defense?

Scum Priest + Scum Warlock making a cunning plan.

He flipped town. This makes no sense.

Yes, that would be the obvious implication.

Then we can test your theory in two ways. The first is lynching Crown, the second is lynching Josh. Now let's assume you are wrong, who would you rather mislynch, the Warlock, or the Priest who has already used up he's revive?

Why do you want to lynch Josh so badly?

Good night Jim. Best of luck with talking to rocks.

I guess Jim's not in a very gneiss mood tonight.

_{I'm sorry, it just had to be said}

Why don't you try being productive for once?

Right then. First of all, I'm so "eager" to be confirmed town because the more confirmed town people we have, the better. I'd rather confirm myself as soon as I can, rather than waiting until I'm about to hang. By doing it early, I ensure that as little time as possible is wasted going after town (what's happening right now). I know that my role is a powerful one, so obviously it's preferable that I don't die.

That is BS because:
  * If your role is powerful, and you want to survive, you want to abstain from claiming and work on hunting instead. This is elementary.
  * There is little to no reason to be so eager about being confirmed town. This is a bullshit reason, and I don't think I need to explain why.
  * Going after town happens. We can extend if necessary. This is not an important concern to have; rather, you should be concerned about finding scum than trying to clear yourself and others.
  * You still haven't confirmed yourself, so congratulations about that.

Dariush, your reasoning as to why no kill happened has been...oh wait, you still haven't given a logical reason. You've (mistakenly) tried to call Vector a liar for a claim that wasn't made, then you attempted to prove a point by asking Meph a question - a point that I'm still waiting to hear.

Hey, that's a clever post. You leave no possibility of me not being scum and not knowing why the fuck there was no nightkill.

And the point I've been trying to prove is 'even if I got the PM, it doesn't mean I tried to leave the house' - a point which is conveniently ignored by Toaster, even though it voids his whole case.

That possibility is only non-existant if you make it so, Dariush. In my post I'm asking you to refute the claim and prove it wrong, not sit there and whine about how hard it is to do so.

"Look, even if the police took the gun out of my hand, that doesn't mean I'm the one who used it on that gunshot victim." While that's technically true, if highly idiotic, I don't see how your "point" (using the term facetiously) voids anything, certainly not the argument against you. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper.

Have you actually read what Mephansteras said?

Let me quote:

Meph, does a guarded player receive PM even if he didn't attempt to leave the house?

I have not been particularly consistent about that. For this game, a Guarded player will receive a PM regardless of whether they have a night action or not.

[Max White]

So?

So I was correcting him. He said he was confirmed town, he was not.

And how the fuck does that constitute a chainsaw defense?

He was claiming my attacks were to try and draw attention off somebody else. He was attacking my attacks, chainsawing.

Why do you want to lynch Josh so badly?

I think he is scum. I want to lynch scum, don't you?

[Jim Groovester]

I'm back. Just a few answers to questions posed at me; I'll be able to look at the game in more detail later.

Jim, I can understand where you're coming from with your argument with Max, but it also appears that you're very eager to pin a "scummy" tag on him. In reading through, (though this may be due to hindsight) it looked to me like Max was fielding a hypothetical. And while nothing you said was untrue (I agree that it's extremely scummy to vote based on "least damaging mislynch"), I don't think that what Max was saying was necessarily that we should lynch Josh because it's the right thing to do, but rather that if we were to follow your theory, lynching Josh would be the best move. Do I think we should follow your theory? No, because it's only one theory and enough of the town's focus has already been dumped into it. I think it's a good possibility to have in mind, and we should continue hunting because if we get caught up on an untrue theory, scum can lock things up that much easier.

Exactly, you and me are on the same page about my theory. I don't want to test my theory for the sake of testing my theory, I'd rather lynch based on good reads gathered from good scumhunting.

But Max White was asking me questions under the assumption that testing my theory for the sake of testing my theory was the entirety of everything I ever wanted to do, mere moments after I came up with it. He continued with the same line of questioning even after I made it abundantly clear that I wasn't interested in doing anything like he was suggesting or discussing anything about it. I called him scummy because it was. I kept calling him scummy afterward to get him to shut the fuck up about it because I really didn't want to listen to him prattle on with his arguments.

I don't understand your question. You agree Max White was being really scummy, but you object when I call him scummy. I don't follow.

Jim:  Does it really matter what flavor of blocker I'm claiming at this point?

I'm not discounting the possibility that there's some sort of scum-specific roleblocker. I didn't really expect any answer other than the one you gave, but it's still important to make sure about these things.

I don't see why he couldn't just fakeclaim as a town-roleblocker when scum.

I know, there's nothing stopping him from doing that.

I didn't really expect anything out of the question, but I think it was a good move to get him to claim explicitly anyway. There's always a chance it could come in handy later. Not a big one, but still a chance.

Scum Priest + Scum Warlock making a cunning plan.

He flipped town. This makes no sense.

I'm not talking about Solifuge. I'm talking about JoshuaFH.

The theory is that CrownOfFire tried to get Solifuge to say he was confirmed if Solifuge came back because CrownOfFire knew that JoshuaFH was planning on reviving Solifuge. It would be a MegaWIFOMlicious move, and I almost hope it's the case because it's damned ballsy.

[Toaster]

Crown:

Proven to be town unless he's a demon, really.

Which is the same as "not proven town."  Why did you bother posting this?


Dariush: 

Anyway, Dariush, you were nearly as quiet as I was Day 1.

I live on the other side of the globe from the majority of the players. In my day there's at most 4-5 posts, so it is much more ergonomic to make a post once or twice per day, where I cram all information. And I didn't lurk for five days straight, unlike a certain somebody, so don't offend me by comparing me to yourself.

You falsely lashed out at Vector along with Toaster (for believing that both had claimed to guard you, which was nonsense)

I admitted there was a mistake. I misread the author of a single post. Is that also a scumtell in your lurking eyes?

(underline mine)

Ad hominem attacks on your attacker noted.

And the point I've been trying to prove is 'even if I got the PM, it doesn't mean I tried to leave the house' - a point which is conveniently ignored by Toaster, even though it voids his whole case.

It only voids my case if I believe you that you didn't leave the house, which I do not.  It takes away the complete certainty in my case, yes, but I still stick with the reasoning that there was no kill because you (the killer) were blocked.

If I had only that simple fact to build a case on you, I'd probably vote you anyway, short of a far better case on someone else.  However, it's not the only point.

Let's start back in D1 with your active lurking and noncommittal statement.  You then give a weak reason to tie the votes shortly before deadline.  Overall, you had essentially no content D1.

D2 you've posted a couple attacks to Max White, but nothing else that's not defensive- especially note your above quote to Solifuge. 

And instead of scumhunting...

You're defending yourself instead of scumhunting.


In conclusion, you are active lurking, far more concerned about defending yourself than scumhunting, and you were blocked on a night with no night kill.  You are scum.


Max:

Wait, sorry, I totally missed Toasters question there. Let me address it.
Well I'm confident that Josh is scum, thus my vote is on him. Jim and Bd? Not as much, but there interactions and other play have together been strong enough for me to say they are scum, otherwise I would just be watching them carefully. Josh, however, I will say is scum even without Jim or Bd.

Can you be more specific on those interactions?

Ah, well thank you for bringing that up now. Guess he isn't the nk target then. Still, we have Sorcerers, Wizards and knights, so there are other ways to stop a night kill.
Anybody: If a Sorcerer, Wizard or knight managed to stop a kill, would they be informed of this, and would they be informed of who the killer was?
Further more, if somebody else was saved last night, should they claim?

A knight definitely knows they were attacked.  Wizards probably know they saved one (docs in Meph games usually know they successfully saved someone, but I don't think we've seen a save in any Super).  I don't think we've had a Sorcerer, so I don't know what they do.

If a doc knows they saved someone, they should almost certainly not claim unless they think it will prevent a mislynch.  If someone knows they were saved, I don't see why they shouldn't claim- their attempted killer already knows what happened.